Citizenfour(第四公民)[2014]电影台词本阅读、下载和单词统计

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电影名称：第四公民
英文名称：Citizenfour
年代：2014

推荐：千部英美剧台词本阅读
时间 英文 中文
[00:11] 2006年 在拍摄了一部关于伊拉克战争的电影后 我被列入了一份秘密监视名单 在接下来的几年时间里我在美国边境多次遭到拘留审问
[00:46] Laura 劳拉
[00:48] at this stage I can offer nothing more than my word 眼下我能给你的只有几句话
[00:51] I am a senior government employee in the intelligence community 我是政府情报机构的高级雇员
[00:55] I hope you understand that contacting you is an extremely high risk 希望你能明白我现在联系你风险非常大
[00:59] and you’re willing to agree to the following precautions before I share more 在我透露更多消息之前你必须同意做好以下安全防御措施
[01:03] This will not be a waste of your time 绝对不会浪费你的时间
[01:06] The following sounds complex 以下步骤听起来比较复杂
[01:08] but it should only take minutes to complete for someone technical 但对一个懂点技术的人来说只要几分钟就能完成
[01:12] I would like to confirm out of the email that the keys we exchange 在邮件中我向你保证我们之间的密匙交换
[01:15] will not be intercepted in your place by your surveillance 不会被监视你的人所拦截
[01:19] Please confirm that no one has ever had a copy of your private key and it uses a strong passphrase 假设你的敌人有每秒一百万兆次的计算推测能力
[01:25] assume your adversary is capable 请确保没有其他人拥有你私人密匙的副本
[01:28] of one trillion guesses per second 并且使用强效口令
[01:29] If the device used to install the private key and enter your passphrase on has been hacked 如果用来下载储存私人密匙和输入口令的装置被黑客入侵
[01:34] It is trivial to decrypt your communications 那么你就不需要去解开加密的通讯了
[01:38] Understand that the both steps are not bulletproof 你要明白即使做到这两步也不能完全保证我们的安全
[01:40] and they are intended only to give us breathing room 这仅仅是为了给我们一点喘息的空间
[01:43] In the end if you publish the source material 最后 如果你公布了这份原始资料
[01:45] I’ll likely be immediately implicated 那么我会立即被牵连
[01:47] This must not turn you from the least information I will provide 但不要因为这个原因就不公布我接下来要提供的文件
[01:52] Thank you and be careful 非常感谢 保重
[01:55] Citizen Four 四号公民
[02:20] … has surveillance means that there are facts of all us will like to… 具有的监视系统意味着我们将
[02:26] …take away the surveillance… 取消监视…
[02:27] There are no facts that the government is manufacturing… 目前没有证据表明政府正在制造…
[02:30] That’s alright, and this is all back into an independent record 是的 这些都在一份独立记录中有说明
[02:33] To me, this goes to the question of 对我来说 目前问题是
[02:35] 当我在本周早些时候写到简·迈尔的纽约客文章 关于奥巴马政府对告密者的战争时 那篇…
[02:38] independently verifying what the government is doing 要对政府行为进行独立调查
[02:41] That’s why I keep going back… 这就是为什么我一直…
[02:44] All with David, after CBS news… 现在是大卫带来的CBS新闻…
[02:47] traffic, and weather on KKZN Denver/Boulder AM 7… 早上7点丹佛巨石都会区的交通和天气情况
[02:57] Hey, can you hear me? 嘿 能听到我说话吗
[03:00] I am here David, how are you? 我在这 大卫 你好
[03:06] well, I’ll just point, start by pointing to 我想说的是
[03:08] Barack Obama himself said about those questions 在2007年12年
[03:10] when he was running for the office 奥巴马在竞选总统时
[03:12] that he now occupies in December of 2007 曾经对这些问题发表过看法
[03:15] He said quote 他称
[03:16] “the president does not have the power under the constitution 如果不是为了停止对国家迫在眉睫的威胁
本电影台词包含不重复单词：1852个。
其中的生词包含：四级词汇：436个，六级词汇：240个，GRE词汇：217个，托福词汇：330个，考研词汇：440个，专四词汇：407个，专八词汇：61个，
所有生词标注共：786个。
定制生词标注的台词本和单词统计，请访问生词标注台词本
[03:19] to unilaterally authorize military attack 在宪法下
[03:21] in a situation that does not involve 总统是没有权利单方面
[03:23] stopping an actual imminent threat to the nation” 授权军事袭击的
[03:26] So by Obama’s own words 所以按照奥巴马的话来说
[03:27] the president does not have the power 根据宪法
[03:29] that he’s now exercising under the constitution 他目前行使的权力是非法的
[03:31] And as far as why it matters 为什么这件事这么重要呢
[03:33] in August 1st 2007 因为在2007年8月1日
[03:36] when he laid out his reasons why he was running for office 他解释了自己竞选总统的原因
[03:39] why he thought it was so important to change the way we were doing things 以及为什么我们要改变目前的行事方式
[03:42] He said quote “no more ignoring the law when it’s inconvenient 他称 不能行事不便就忽视法律
[03:46] that is not who we are 这不是原来的我们
[03:47] We will again set an example for the world 我们要再一次为世界树立榜样
[03:50] that law’s not subjected to the whims of stubborn rulers 向他们证明法律是不会受顽固的统治者所摆布的
[03:53] So do all the presidents just simply start wars on their own without any… 所以现在总统就是自己发起战争 无视…
[04:22] you asked why I picked you 你问我为什么选择了你
[04:24] I didn’t, you did 但其实不是我选择了你 而是你自己
[04:27] The surveillance you’ve experienced means you’ve been “selected” 现在你被监视过 这意味着你被”选中”了
[04:30] A term which will mean more to you 因为你了解现
[04:32] as you learn about how the modern SIGINT system works 代通信情报系统是怎么工作的 这个词对你意味着跟多
[04:37] For now, know that every border you cross, every purchase you make 从现在开始 你越过的每个边境 买的每件东西
[04:41] every call you dial 打的每个电话
[04:42] Every cell phone tower you pass, friend you keep 经过的每座手机信号发射塔 交的朋友
[04:45] article you write, site you visit 写的篇文章 去的地方
[04:48] subject line you type and packet you route 在标题栏里打的每个字 发送的每个数据包
[04:51] is in the hands of a system whose reach is unlimited 都在一个系统的掌握之中 它的覆盖范围是无限的
[04:54] but whose safeguards are not 但保护措施却是有限的
[04:57] Your victimization by the NSA system means 国家安全局选择欺骗你
[04:59] you are well aware of the threat 这意味着你很清楚不受限制的秘密政策
[05:01] that unrestricted secret police pose for democracies 会对民主带来怎样的威胁
[05:05] This is a story few but you can tell 这个故事只有少数人能说 你就是其中之一
[05:07] 为了防止我的电影胶片在美国边境被没收 我搬到了柏林 当收到第一封邮件的时候我加强了安全措施
[05:38] 威廉·宾尼是国家安全局一名充满传奇色彩的解密数学家 在冷战期间 他分析过核威胁 在九十年代 他将工作重点 转移到互联网并拓展了大规模数据分析方法
[06:02] Thank you for inviting me here 非常感谢能邀请我来这里
[06:04] and to give me the opportunity to, uh, express my story 并给我这次机会来说说自己的故事
[06:08] Let me give you some of my background 让我先在说说自己的背景吧
[06:10] I spend about four years in military 我在军队里呆了4年
[06:12] and then I went to NSA, directly, so 然后直接去了美国国家安全局
[06:15] So I ended up with about 37 years of service combined 所以我在政府机构总共工作了37年
[06:19] Most of that was a lot of fun 大部分的工作都很有趣
[06:21] I tell you it was really a lot of fun breaking these puzzles 解谜是非常有意思的一件事
[06:23] you know, solving problems, things like that 还有其他解决问题之类的
[06:25] So and that’s really what I did, it was fun for me 所以这就是我所做的工作 兴趣所在
[06:28] I started working with data 我开始接受有关数据的工作
[06:29] looking at data and data systems, how you do that 查看数据和数据系统以及怎样操作
[06:32] I used to develop this concept of analysis 我发明了一种分析概念
[06:35] that you could lay it out in such a way 就是你可以把数据进行排列
[06:37] that it could be coded and executed electronically 然后对它进行编码并执行程序
[06:40] meaning you could automate analysis, ok 意思就是你可以对数据进行自动化分析
[06:43] And it has to do with metadata and using metadata to relationships 这个概念和元数据有关 用元数据建立联系
[06:46] So that was whole, that was my whole theme there in NSA 所以这就是我在国家安全局的工作重心
[06:49] that was, eventually that’s what I ended up to 也是我的成果
[06:51] I was the only one there doing it by the way 顺便说一下 在国家安全局做这个的只有我一个人
[06:54] So anyway 911 happened 然后911发生了
[06:58] And it must have been right after a few days 在这件事发生后的几天
[07:01] no more than a week after 911 肯定不超过一个礼拜
[07:04] they decided to began actively spying on everyone in this country 他们就决定对美国国内每个人都进行监视
[07:09] and they wanna that, that part of our program to run all the spying, alright 他们想让我们组的部分项目用来进行监视活动
[07:15] So that’s, that’s exactly what they did 他们还真的这么做了
[07:18] And then they started to take telecom data and expanded after that 后来他们就开始获取电信记录 之后又扩展到其他信息
[07:23] So, I mean the one I knew was AT&T 就我知道的公司有AT&T
[07:26] and that one provided 320 million records everyday 他们每天都会提供3亿2千万条记录
[07:29] That program was reauthorized every 45 days by the 这个项目每45天会重新授权一次
[07:33] what I called the Yes Committee 授权组织我叫它”是”委员会
[07:33] 迈克尔·海登 时任国家安全局局长 乔治·特尼特 时任中情局局长 美司法部
[07:35] Which was Hayden, Tenet and the DOJ 成员有海登 特尼特和司法部
[07:40] The program was called Stellar Wind 项目名叫《星风》
[07:42] So first I went to the house intelligence committee 一开始我去了众议院情报委员会
[07:45] then the staff member that I personally knew there and 那里有个和我认识的工作人员
[07:48] she then went to the chairman of that committee 她然后去找了委员会的主席
[07:50] Nancy Pelosi was the minority Rep 南希·佩洛西当时还是少数派领袖
[07:54] They were all briefed into that program at the time by the way 那个时候该项目的情况都要向这些人报告
[07:57] And all the other programs were all going on 其他正在进行的项目中
[07:59] including all these CIA programs 也包括中央情报局的所有项目
[08:02] I wasn’t alone in this 我并不是单枪匹马
[08:03] there were four others out there in NSA 和我一起在国家安全局的还有其他四个人
[08:05] and we were all trying to work internally in the government for over these years 这么多年来我们一直在政府内部进行工作
[08:08] trying to get them to cover around being constitutionally acceptable 试图使这些项目合乎宪法
[08:12] and take it into the courts 然后带去法院审查
[08:14] you have the court oversight of it too 法院的监督当然也是必不可少的
[08:16] so we, we naively kept thinking that could 所以我们天真地想一切都能顺风顺水
[08:19] that could happen and it never did 但是希望落空了
[08:24] but anyway after that and all the stuff we were doing 然而在我们做了这些工作之后
[08:27] they decided to raid us, to keep us quiet 他们决定对我们进行搜查 让我们闭嘴
[08:30] threaten us, you know 甚至还威胁我们
[08:32] so we were raided simultaneously, four of us 我们四个人的搜查是同时进行
[08:34] in my case they came in with guns drawn 在搜查我的时候他们是拿着枪来的
[08:36] I don’t know why they did that, but they did 我不知道他们为什么那么做 但事实就是这样
[08:59] Laura 劳拉
[09:01] I will answer what I’ve remembered of your questions as best as I can 我很尽量回答我记得的问题
[09:04] forgive the lack of structure 抱歉 可能不是很有条理
[09:05] I am not a writer 毕竟我不是一个作家
[09:06] I have to draft this in a great hurry 这些都是我匆匆忙忙赶出来的
[09:10] What you know is Stellar Wind has grown 你知道的《星风》项目已经越来越复杂了
[09:14] SSO the expended special source operation 扩展后的特殊消息行动组SSO
[09:17] that took over Stellar Wind’s share of the pine 已经接管了《星风》
[09:20] has spread all over the world 该行动组已经遍及全球
[09:22] to practically include comprehensive coverage of the United States 尤其是对美国进行了全面的监视
[09:26] Disturbingly, the amount of US communication 让人担忧的是遭到国家安全局拦截的
[09:29] ingested by NSA is still increasing 美国通讯数量仍在增多
[09:33] Publicly, we complain that things are going dark 政府公开抱怨事情越来越糟糕
[09:35] but in fact our accesses are improving 但实际上他们能监视的范围已经越来越广了
[09:39] The truth is that the NSA has never in his history 即使在历史上 国家安全局也从未
[09:41] collected more than it does now 搜集过那么多的信息
[09:46] I know the location of most domestic interception points 我知道国内有多个拦截点
[09:49] and the largest telecommunication companies in the US 以及大规模的电信公司
[09:52] are betraying the trust of their customers 背弃了顾客对他们的信任
[09:55] which I can prove 这点我可以证明
[09:57] We are building the greatest weapon for oppression in the history of man 我们正在建造人类历史上最强大的镇压武器
[10:01] Yet its’ directors are accepting themselves through accountability 而它的指挥者却以责任为其正名
[10:06] NSA director Keith Alexander lied to Congress 国家安全局局长基思·亚力山大欺骗了国会
[10:09] but which I can prove 这点我可以证明
[10:11] Billions of US communications are being intercepted 上百万条美国通讯正在被拦截
[10:16] And gathering evidence of wrongdoing 收集这一切不法行为的证据
[10:18] I focus on the wrongdoing of the American people 我主要集中在美国民众所作的错事上
[10:21] But believe me when I say that the surveillance we live under 但是请相信我 我们所受的监视
[10:23] is the highest privilege compared to how we treat the rest of the world 和其他国家受到的美国方面的监视相比 已经算是优待了
[10:28] This I can also prove 这点我也可以证明
[10:31] On cyber operations, the government’s public position is that 在网络运行方面 政府的公开立场是
[10:34] we still lack a policy framework 我们仍然缺少一个政策框架
[10:36] That, too, is a lie 这也是个谎言
[10:37] There’s a detailed policy framework 事实上他们有非常详尽的政策框架
[10:40] a kind of marshal law for cyber operations created by the White House 是由白宫制定的网络行动戒严法
[10:44] It’s called presidential policy director of 20 名为20号总统政策指导
[10:46] and was finalized at the end of last year 并在去年最终确定
[10:49] This I can also prove 这点我也能证明
[10:52] I appreciate that you concerned for my safety 非常感谢你能这么关心我的安全
[10:55] But I already know how this will end for me 但是我非常清楚我最终将面临怎样的结局
[10:57] and I accept the risk 我也自愿承担风险
[10:59] If I have luck and you’re careful 如果我够幸运 你也够小心
[11:02] you will have everything you need 那么你会得到一切你想要的
[11:04] I ask only that you ensure this information makes it home to the American public 我只要求你能确保这些消息最后能够公之于众
[11:09] Does the NSA routinely intercept American citizens’ emails? 国家安全局是否常规性地拦截了美国公民的邮件
[11:14] No 没有
[11:17] Does the NSA intercept American’s cell phone conversations? 国家安全局是否拦截了美国公民的电话谈话内容
[11:23] No 没有
[11:24] Google searches? 谷歌搜索记录
[11:25] No 没有
[11:27] Text messages? 短信记录
[11:28] No 没有
[11:29] Amazoncom orders? 亚马逊购物记录
[11:31] No 没有
[11:32] Bank records? 银行记录
[11:33] No 没有
[11:34] What your judicial consent is required 国家安全局需要你
[11:37] for NSA to intercept communications and information 在哪方面的同意才能拦截
[11:42] involving American citizens? 美国公民通讯和信息
[11:44] Within the United States that would be the FBI lead 在美国境内是由中情局负责
[11:47] If it was a foreign actor in the United States 如果对象是在美国的外国演员
[11:49] The FBI would still have to lead 也是由中情局负责
[11:51] and could work that with NSA 但是可以和国家安全局
[11:53] or other intelligence agencies as authorized 或其他授权情报机构进行合作
[11:56] But to conduct that kind of, of collection in Unite States 但是要在美国进行这种规模的信息搜集
[12:00] we have to go through a court order 我们必须要得到法院的许可
[12:03] And court would have to authorized it 由法院进行授权
[12:05] We are not authorized to do it, nor do we do it 我们并没有得到授权 我们也没有进行过信息搜集
[12:07] 威廉 中村 贤三 美国联邦法院 联邦上诉法院
[12:15] All rise 全体起立
[12:18] The United States court of appeal for the Ninth Circuit is now in session 美国第九巡回上诉法庭现在开庭
[12:20] 2006年 技术人员马克·克莱因 透露国家安全局窃听位于旧金山的AT&T公司网络顾客 因此起诉
[12:23] Please be seated 大家请坐
[12:33] Morning and welcome to the Ninth Circuit 早上好 欢迎来到第九巡回法庭
[12:37] The first case for argument is Jewel verses National Security Agency 今天开庭审理的第一个案子是 朱厄尔起诉国家安全局
[12:42] You may proceed 你可以开始了
[12:46] May it please the court 法官您好
[12:47] Kevin Bankston for Carolyn Jewel 我是卡罗林·朱厄尔
[12:48] and her fellow plaintiffs in Jewel VS NSA 以及其他原告的代理人凯文·班克斯顿
[12:53] Your honors, plaintiffs have specifically alleged that 法官阁下 我的原告当事人
[12:57] their own communications and communications’ records 已经明确指出 政府拥有
[12:59] have been acquired by the government 其通讯内容记录
[13:02] But the district court found that 但地方法院认为
[13:03] we have failed to allege facts that 我方无法提供证据
[13:06] differentiate the injury of our plaintiffs have suffered 对我当事人所受的损害
[13:09] from the injury suffered by every other AT&T user 和AT&T公司其他用户所受到的损害进行区分
[13:12] whose communications and records have been acquired by the government 政府同样也拿到了这些用户的通讯记录
[13:15] Basically concluding that 由此基本可以肯定
[13:16] so long as everyone is being surveiled 只要人人都被监视
[13:19] no one has standing to sue 那么没有人有起诉资格
[13:21] However to deny the standing of a person who’s injured 一个人受到损失但没有起诉资格
[13:23] simply because many others are also injured 仅仅因为其他人也受到了同样的损失
[13:26] would mean that the most injurious and wise of the government’s actions 这意味政府决策不管好坏
[13:29] can be questioned by nobody 没有人能够质疑
[13:31] do you have anything concrete other than fact 你能提供具体的证据
[13:33] a specific communication of your client was intercepted 来证明你的当事人通讯遭到拦截吗
[13:39] we have evidence that all the communications passing between AT&T’s network 我们有证据证明所有位于北卡罗来纳的AT&T网络
[13:43] and other networks in their North California facility have been intercepted 和其他网络中进行的通讯活动都受到过拦截
[13:48] so that would necessarily include the internet communications 那么其中必定包括我来自北卡罗来纳州的当事人
[13:50] of our Northern California plaintiffs, so 所进行的网络通讯活动
[13:54] ok, thank you 好的 谢谢
[13:55] thank you your honors 谢谢 法官阁下
[14:04] may it please the court 法官您好
[14:04] Thomas Byron from the department of justice here 我是来自司法部的托马斯·拜伦
[14:07] on behalf of the government defendants 我代表政府被告
[14:09] we think this litigation need not be resolved in federal court 我们认为这起诉讼不需要在联邦法院进行审理
[14:13] in light of the oversight of the political branches, both legislative and executive, 鉴于立法部门和行政部门这两大部门
[14:19] which provides a better opportunity for oversight and resolution of the concerns 能够提供更好的监督机会和办法
[14:26] raised concerning nationwide policies of alleged surveillance 来解决这些案件中所谓的
[14:31] uh, in these, in these complains 全国范围内的监视政策所带来的问题
[14:33] even the EFF’s revealed that 就算EFF披露越来越多原告
[14:34] more and more of the plaintiffs 他们的邮件和电话记录被拦截
[14:36] had emails or telephone conversations intercepted 和保护国家安全
[14:39] that had nothing to do with the national security 没有一点关系
[14:42] Your honor, I don’t know that anyone necessarily would have standing 法官阁下 在这两起案件中我认为没有任何人
[14:46] to raise the particular claims at issue in these two cases 有诉讼资格起诉我方当事人
[14:50] we think, instead 我们认为
[14:51] that the kinds of claims at issue here against these defendants 针对我方当事人提出的诉讼
[14:56] are those are better suit to resolution before the 能在上述政府部门
[14:59] the representative branches of our government 得到更好的解决
[15:01] what would the judiciary have if your approach’s adopted? 采用你的建议对司法部有什么益处
[15:09] judge Ferguson I think that 弗格森法官 我认为…
[15:10] I mean we just, just get out of the way, is that it? 你的意思是让我们法院不要进行干涉 对吗
[15:14] Well, judge Ferguson I think that there’s narrow category of subset of cases 弗格森法官 我认为针对一些隶属于小范畴的案例
[15:18] in which it maybe appropriate to step aside for that narrow category of cases 法庭不做干涉是比较合适的做法
[15:24] but the judiciary places a rule 但是司法部是有法令法规的
[15:27] to be sure, judge Ferguson 那是当然 弗格森法官
[15:28] our system 这是我们的系统
[15:29] yes, your honor And we don’t mean to diminish that 是的 法官阁下 但我们的意思不是说削弱法院
[15:33] you are here asking us to abdicate that rule? 你现在是在要求我们废除我们的法令法规吗
[15:36] no, your honor 不是这样的 法官阁下
[15:37] uh, but it is the question of this court discussion 是否要采取这种做法
[15:39] whether to reach that issue 还是要取决于法院的讨论结果
[15:41] we do think that, there is simply no way for the litigation to proceed 我方认为要进行该诉讼程序
[15:45] without risk of divulging those very questions of privileged information that would cause 必然会有泄露机密信息的风险
[15:51] as the director of national intelligence has explained 就像国家安全局局长说过的
[15:53] exceptionally grave damage to national security of disclose 这势必会严重损害国家安全信息的披露
[16:01] thanks for having me 非常感谢邀请我
[16:03] if anybody has any question, like I said, just, basically just raising hand 如果有什么问题 就像我说过的 举个手就可以
[16:07] and I’ll try to call you as soon as I possibly can 我会尽快的叫你的
[16:10] So, who here actually feels like they are under surveillance, pretty regularly? 在场有多少人老是觉得自己被监视的
[16:18] Everyone in sight is occupied 好像每个人都经历过
[16:19] How many people here have been arrested and have their, have record dated 在场有多少人曾经被逮捕 登记在案
[16:22] and have their phone taken into the backroom? 手机被拿走带到密室的
[16:24] How many people here have their retinal scanned 有多少人做过视网膜扫描的
[16:28] Wow 哇
[16:30] So, you guys are actually in a sense that canary in the coal mine, right? 所以现在大家都感觉自己是煤矿里的金丝雀 对吗
[16:34] Because incentives are all lied up against you 因为这些东西都与你们为敌
[16:36] Any to see you on the subway, 你在坐地铁的时候都是
[16:38] link your metro card to your debt card, right? 可以把地铁卡连到你的银行卡上的 对吧
[16:41] And get a refill 然后好进行充值
[16:42] This is a concept which is key to everything we talk about today 这是一个对我们今天的讲座内容至关重要的概念
[16:45] That is called linkability 这个概念被称为联结性
[16:46] Take one piece of data, and link it to another piece of data 用一个数据把它连接到另一个数据上
[16:50] So for example 举个例子
[16:51] if you have your metro card and you have your debt card 你现在手头上有地铁卡和银行卡
[16:53] You have those things you could draw a line between them, right? 这两个是完全没有关联的 对吧
[16:56] So that’s like not a scary thing 听起来不怎么可怕
[16:58] except your bank card is tied to everything else 但是现在你的银行卡
[17:00] that you do during the day 可以和你在这一天当中所做的任何事进行联结
[17:02] So now they know where you are going, 所以现在他们知道了你要去哪里
[17:04] when you make purchases 什么时候买东西
[17:05] So when they decide to target you 所以当他们决定要把你作为目标的时候
[17:07] think that I actually recreate exact steps with a metro card and a credit card alone 记得我刚刚仅仅用地铁卡和银行卡 做了一个步骤重现
[17:11] like literally where you go and what you buy 你去的地方 买的东西
[17:14] and potentially by linking that data 他们会将这些信息
[17:16] with other people on the similar travel plans 和有相同记录的人进行联结
[17:19] they can figure out who you talked to and who you met with 这样他们就可以知道你和谁说过话 见过面
[17:21] When you then take cell phone data which logs your location 你用有位置记录的手机数据
[17:25] and you link up purchasing data, metro card data and your debt card 和购物数据 地铁卡数据 银行卡数据连起来
[17:29] You start to get what you could call metadata in aggregate over a person’s life 总的来说 通过这种方式可以得到一个人一生的元数据
[17:34] A metadata in aggregate is content 元数据总的来说就是事件内容
[17:37] it tells a story about you which is made up of facts 用事实记录你的一切
[17:40] but is not necessarily true 但不一定都是正确的
[17:42] So, for example just because you are on the corner 举个例子 比如说你正好在那个街角
[17:44] and all those data points point to it 所有有关犯罪嫌疑人的数据点都指向那个地点
[17:46] It doesn’t’ mean you commit the crime 但这并不意味着你就是罪犯
[17:48] So it’s important to know that 所以最重要的事是
[17:50] if someone has a perception of you having done a thing 要是别人知道你做了什么事
[17:52] It will now follow you for the rest of your life 那么这个记录会一辈子跟着你
[17:55] So just keep in mind that what happens to you guys for example 所以要牢记那些在你们身上发生的事情
[17:57] With Fingerprints, retinal scans and photographs 比如你们做的那些视网膜扫描 被拍的照片
[18:01] That is what is going to happen to people in the future 当以后的人想要反抗这些改变
[18:04] when they resist all these changes 想要用受宪法保护的形式
[18:05] And when they try to protest 进行抗议的时候
[18:06] in a totally constitutionally protected way 这一切就会发生在他们的身上
[18:10] This is for you director Clapper 到你了克拉珀 局长
[18:11] get on the surveillance front 请到前面来
[18:12] and I hope we can do this in a just yes-or-no answer 我希望我们就用回答是或不是来进行
[18:15] because eveyone wants to find some times to move on 因为大家都想快点进入下一个阶段
[18:18] So does NSA collect any type of data at all on millions 国家安全局是否搜集过数百万名
[18:24] or hundreds of millions of Americans? 或者说是亿万美国人的信息
[18:27] No, sir 没有
[18:29] It does not 没有是吗
[18:32] Not wittingly, there are cases where they could in-inadvertently perhaps, uh, collect 不是蓄意的 有些时候可能不经意地搜集了一些信息
[18:39] but not, not wittingly 但没有蓄意搜集的行为
[18:41] Alright 好的
[18:42] 在与匿名人士进行了长达数月的通讯后 该匿名人士终于同意见面 我来到纽约等待下一步指令
[19:07] The encrypted archive should be available to you within 7 days 你应该在7天之内就能获得加密文档
[19:11] The key will follow when everything else is done 密匙能长期使用
[19:15] The material I provide and investigative effort required 我所提供的信息以及必要的调查工作
[19:18] will be too much for any one person 对任何一个人来说都是一个大工程
[19:21] I recommend at a very minimum you involve Glenn Greenwald 我建议你至少要找格伦·格林沃尔德帮忙
[19:24] I believe you know him 我觉得你应该知道他
[19:28] The plain text to the payload will include my true name details for the record 记载信息的纯文本 包括我的真实姓名和有关记录的细节
[19:33] Though it would be your decision 至于是否公布我的身份 用何种方式
[19:35] as to whether or how to declare my involvement 则由你来决定
[19:39] My personal desire is that you paint the target directly on my back 我个人愿望是你直接说出 我就是泄密的人
[19:44] No one, not even my most trusted confidant 没有人 甚至连我最信任的知己
[19:47] is aware of my intentions 都不了解我的意图
[19:48] And it would not be fair for them 因为我而让他们被怀疑
[19:50] to fall under suspicion for my actions 对他们来说是非常不公平的
[19:53] You may be the only one who can prevent that 只有你能阻止这件事
[19:55] and that is by immediately nailing me to the cross 你要让我被钉在十字架上
[19:58] Rather than trying to protect me as a source 而不是作为线人把我保护起来
[20:03] On timing regarding meeting up in Hong Kong 至于在香港的会面时间
[20:07] The first rendezvous attempt will be 10 am local time on Monday 第一次见面时间是当地时间星期一早上十点
[20:12] We will meet in a hallway outside the restaurant in the Mira Hotel 我们会在的米拉酒店餐厅外面的走道里会面
[20:17] I will be working on a Rubik’s cube 我会玩一个魔方
[20:19] So that you can indentify me 这样你就能认出我
[20:22] Approach me and ask me 接近我
[20:23] if I know the house of the restaurant 然后问我知不知道餐厅的营业时间
[20:26] I’ll respond by stating that I am not sure 我会回答我不清楚
[20:28] and suggest that you try the lounge instead 并建议你到休息室问问
[20:31] After that I will show you where it is 然后我会给你带路
[20:32] and at that point we’re good 这样就算接头成功了
[20:35] You simply need to follow that truly 你只要表现地自然一点就行了
[21:15] Yes, first positioning 首次定位
[21:16] I mean, if you want to just sit, any particular what are you gonna be doing 随便坐 自在点
[21:19] you know, I’m gonna go there, to get a better light 我去那边 这样拍出来光线比较好
[21:33] There are, you know so many, different, enormous stories 你知道这些文件中有很多不同的事可以写
[21:37] Just that kind standout stories 会是非常好的报道
[21:40] That even like, you know, certain things like individual documents 就算是有关个人文档的资料
[21:44] that can be just a dern story 也可以是充满秘密的
[21:46] I just want to start teasing these stories out 我就想先把这些梳理出来
[21:48] I ba, I basically woke up this morning 今天早上一醒来
[21:49] and already started writing stories 我就已经开始写报道了
[21:52] So, I’m hoping to, you know start publishing 所以我想在接下来一两天内
[21:54] with them like a day or two days 就把这篇报道发出去
[21:56] Ok 好的
[21:57] As long as you’re good with that 只要你觉得没有问题
[21:58] yeah 好
[21:59] so, As far as I quote, the stuff we have talked about 我们已经谈论过有些事情
[22:02] I mean, I’m, kinda like, customizing it between, you know, stuff that I like to talk to you about 我想和你谈谈文件的事
[22:10] in term of the documents and the content 有关文件的内容
[22:12] Laura has a bunch of questions about that as well 劳拉也有很多问题
[22:14] Sort of working through documents, getting you taken on a lot of the stuff that 详细说一下这些资料 你因为这些都承受了很多东西
[22:18] You know, how I’m gonna understand it better 这样我会对这些文件有一个更好的理解
[22:19] Then also, sort of, You story, right 然后是关于你自身的故事
[22:23] Like who you are 像是你是谁啊
[22:24] Yeah 嗯
[22:24] Why you’ve done that, what you’ve done 你做了什么 你为什么这么做
[22:27] And I love to do that first 我想先把这部分做了
[22:28] Ok 好的
[22:29] In part because you are the only one who can do that 因为你是公开告密第一人
[22:32] So I would like to get that done, just let’s get that done 所以我想先完成这部分
[22:35] And also because you know, it might be that you want to do that early 还有个原因是可能你也想先做这部分
[22:41] It’s necessary we might choose to have that done early 我们有必要早点做这部分
[22:44] Tell me your thoughts on what you are with that 说说你对这些事情的看法吧
[22:47] The primary one on that 我这么做主要的原因
[22:48] I think I’ve expressed a couple of times is 我也说过很多次了
[22:52] I feel the modern media is a big focus on personalities 就是我觉得现在的媒体都很关注名人
[22:56] Totally 对
[22:57] I’m a little concerned that the more we focus on that 我担心我们对名人关心得越多
[23:01] the more they’re gonna use that as a distraction 就越会被分散注意力
[23:05] I don’t necessarily want that happen 我不想发生这样的事
[23:06] which is why I consistently said, you know 所以我一直说
[23:09] I’m not the story here 我不是故事的中心
[23:12] Nervous 你太紧张了
[23:13] That is very good, very cheap then 这支笔买的时候好用又便宜
[23:15] It looks like the is broke 现在破了
[23:17] Go ahead 继续吧
[23:19] But, yeah, anything I can do to help you guys to get this out I’ll do 只要是能帮助你们的事我都会去做
[23:26] I don’t have any experience with media here, with how this works 对媒体我没有经验
[23:33] I’m kinda learning as I go 所以我现在是边走边学
[23:37] So, I’m just wanna get a sense 我想知道的是
[23:38] of why did you decided to what you’ve done 你为什么要这么做
[23:40] So, for me it all comes down to state power 对于我来说 归根结底就是国家权力
[23:44] against people’s ability to meaningfully oppose that power 和人民反抗力量的抗衡
[23:48] And I’m sitting there everyday 我每天坐在办公室里
[23:51] getting paid to design methods to amplify that state power 拿工资 扩大国家权力
[23:58] And I’m realizing that if, you know the policies 然后我意识到
[24:01] which is, that they are the only things that will strain these states 你知道政策是唯一能够限制国家权力的
[24:05] We’re changed 如果我们被改变了
[24:06] There, you couldn’t meaningfully oppose these 那我们就没有办法反抗
[24:09] I mean you have to be the most incredibly sophisticated tech collector in existence 除非你是超级厉害的技术人员
[24:15] I mean, I’m not sure there’s anybody, no matter how gifted you are 不管一个人多么厉害
[24:20] who could oppose all of the offices, all of the right people 多么有能力 设备有多少
[24:24] even all the mediocre people out there 我认为他都不可能反抗政府机构和手握重权的人
[24:26] with all of the tools and all the capabilities 甚至是连里面最平庸的人可能也反抗不了
[24:29] As I saw the promise of the Obama administration 奥巴马政府背弃了所做的承诺
[24:33] be betrayed and walked away from it 把这一切抛之脑后
[24:36] In fact, actually advance the things that had been promised 事实上 在实现承诺方面
[24:41] to be, sort of, curtailed, reined in and dailed back 他们不仅偷工减料 行动迟滞 甚至还食言
[24:45] It actually got worse 事情变得越来越糟糕
[24:46] particularly drone strikes which I also learned in NSA we could 尤其是我在国家安全局得知的无人机
[24:50] we could watch drone videos 我们可以查看无人机的视频
[24:52] that’s tops 这是非常机密的
[24:56] As, as I saw that really harden me to action 这更坚定了我的决心
[24:59] In real time? 视频是实时的吗
[25:00] In real time, yes 对 实时的
[25:02] A little stream, a lower quality of the video to your desktop 会有一小段画质不高的视频连到你的桌面
[25:06] Typically, you will be watching surveillance drones supposedly, actually 一般来说是无人监视机
[25:09] Murder drones really going out there behind somebody 但其实都是一直跟在某个人背后的杀人机
[25:12] But you have a drone, it’s just following somebody’s house for hours and hours 这些无人机就一直在某个人家附近
[25:17] You won’t know who it is 但是你不知道那个人是谁
[25:19] Because, you know, you don’t have the context for that 因为整个命令内容你不知道
[25:21] But it’s just a page or it’s lists and lists of drone feeds of all these different countries 你收到的文件会是一个或者多个无人机监视不同国家的
[25:27] on all these different code names 影像视频文件 代号都不同
[25:29] You can just click on which one you want to see 点击就能查看
[25:33] Right, but, so if your self interest is to live in a world, 如果你的愿望是住在一个
[25:37] much, there is a maximum privacy 有高度隐私权的国家
[25:39] Doing something that could put you into prison 你这样做会让你受牢狱之灾
[25:42] in which your privacy is completely destroyed 你的隐私还会荡然无存
[25:45] sort of antithesis of that 几乎是和你的愿望背道而驰
[25:46] How did you reach the point where that is worthwhile calculation for you? 为什么你觉得这么做值得呢
[25:51] I remember what the internet was like before I was being watched 我还记得在被监视之前网络是什么样子的
[25:55] And there’s never been anything in the history of man is like it 之前从来没有过类似网络的这种东西
[25:57] I mean, you could, again, you can have children from one part of the world 位于世界一头的孩子们在任何时间 任何地点
[26:02] having an equal discussion 都可以和专家进行平等的讨论
[26:05] Where, you know, they were sort of granted, the same respect 讨论什么都行
[26:10] for their ideas in conversation with experts in the field from another part of the world 而另一头的专家
[26:15] On any topic, anywhere, anytime, all of the time 也会给予他们尊重
[26:19] And it was, it was free and unrestrained 这时候的网络完全是自由没有限制的
[26:22] That we’ve seen the chilling of that, the calling of that, the change of that model 然后我们发现这种模式逐渐发生改变
[26:27] towards something which people self-police their own views 人们对自己的言论开始变得非常小心翼翼
[26:31] And they literally make jokes about ending up on the list 大家都会开玩笑说
[26:34] if they donate to a political cause 你给什么党派捐款 或者在讨论中说了什么话
[26:36] Or if they say something in the discussion 有可能就会被列在监视名单上
[26:39] And, and it’s become an expectation that they’re being watched 都有一个心理预期 我们是在被监视着的
[26:44] Many people love to talk 有些人说
[26:45] have mentioned that they’re careful about what they type into search engines 他们对自己在搜索引擎里打的内容都很谨慎
[26:49] because they know that it’s being recorded 因为他们知道这些都会有记录
[26:50] The limits, the boundaries of their intellectual exploration 他们的思想都受到了限制
[26:56] And, I’m, I am more willing to risk imprisonment or any other negative outcome personally 比起让我和其他跟我一样的人
[27:09] Than I am willing to risk the curtailment of my intellectual freedom 承受思想受到约束的痛苦
[27:16] And that of those around me who might care for equally as I do for myself 我宁愿我个人承受牢狱之灾或者其他不好的结果
[27:23] And again, that’s not to say that I’m self sacrificing 不能说我是在自我牺牲
[27:26] Because it gives me, I feel good in my human experience to know that 因为如果我能为他人利益作出奉献
[27:32] I can contribute to the good of others 我自己也感到很高兴
[27:51] Could you elaborate on that? 你的说得详细一点吗
[27:53] So, I don’t know how much the programs are there 我不知道一共有多少个监视项目
[27:58] the actual technical opacity I’ve basically talked to you about 基本上的技术难点我都说过了
[28:00] But there is an infrastructure in place in United States and worldwide 但是在美国和全球其他范围内的某个地方有一个设施
[28:06] That NSA has built incorporation with other governments as well 是国家安全局和其他政府合建的
[28:13] That intercepts basically every digital communication 所有电子通讯
[28:20] every radio communication 无线电通讯
[28:22] Every analog communication that has sensors in place to detect 只要是有传感器可以探测到的模拟信号通讯都会被拦截
[28:28] And with these capabilities 这些设备
[28:31] Basically the vast majority of 基本上对大部分人类通讯
[28:36] human and computer-to-computer communications 及计算机对计算机通讯
[28:40] device-based communication, which sort of inform relationship 设备通讯 只要是进行
[28:43] between humans are automatically ingested without targeting 信息传递的 不需要锁定目标
[28:49] and that allows individuals 就能自动提取通讯内容
[28:51] to retral actively search your communications 还可以让其他人通过特定的关键词
[28:55] based on self sophistication 搜索你的通讯记录
[28:57] so for example 举个例子
[28:58] if I want to see the content of your email 比如我想看你的邮件内容
[29:03] you know, your wife’s phone calls, anything like that 你妻子的电话记录之类的
[29:07] All I have to do is to use what’s called a “selector” 我要做的是用一个”选择词”
[29:11] Any kind of thing in the communication’s chain 就是在通讯渠道中
[29:17] That might uniquely or almost uniquely identify you as an individual 关于你的特殊信息
[29:22] I’m talking about things like email addresses, IP addresses, phone numbers 比如邮箱 IP地址 电话号码
[29:25] credit cards even passwords that are unique to you that aren’t used by anyone else 银行卡号 甚至是密码 只要是单单只属于你的信息
[29:33] I can input those into the system 我都可以输入这个系统
[29:36] And it will not only go back through the database 这个系统不仅会在现有的数据库中进行搜索
[29:38] And go have I seen this anywhere in the past 而且还会在过去记录中搜索
[29:42] It’ll basically put in an additional level scrutiny on it 这个系统还具有额外的
[29:47] moving into the future 未来搜索模式
[29:49] That says if this is detected now or anytime in the future 如果我输入的信息在将来某个时候匹配到对象
[29:52] I want this to go immediately and alert me in real time 就可以立即搜索到目标
[29:57] that you’re communicating with someone things like that 并报告我你正在和别人进行通讯
[30:04] So I don’t know who you are 我现在还不知道你是谁
[30:05] or anything about you 或者关于你的事情
[30:06] Ok 嗯
[30:07] Uh, I work for Booz Allen Hamilton, the defense contractor 我为国防承包商博思艾伦谘询公司工作
[30:15] I am sort of on loan to the NSA 我是借调到国家安全局的
[30:17] I don’t talk to Booz Allen boss 博思艾伦谘询公司的老板不会找我
[30:19] I don’t get texting from Booz Allen 也不会联系我
[30:20] It’s all from NSA 我的工作都直接来自国家安全局
[30:22] So, I don’t know your name 我还不知道你的名字
[30:23] Oh, sorry, I, my name is Edward Snowden, I go by Ed 哦 对不起 我叫爱德华·斯诺登 可以叫我爱德
[30:30] Uh, Edward Joseph Snowden is my full name 全名是爱德华·约瑟夫·斯诺登
[30:32] S-N-O-W-D-E-N 斯-诺-登
[30:36] Un, where do you from? 你来自哪里
[30:37] I’m, originally I was born in North Carolina 我出生在南卡罗来纳州
[30:41] a small town, Elizabeth City 一个叫伊丽莎白市的小镇
[30:43] There is a Coast guard station there 那里有海岸防卫站
[30:44] I’m from a military family 我来自一个军人家庭
[30:46] But I spend most of my time growing up around, for me, in Maryland 但是我是在马里兰州长大的
[30:53] And your family, what’s the consequence for them 这件事对你的家人有什么后果
[30:57] This, this actually is what has made it the hardest 让我做出这个决定最困难的就是他们
[31:02] My family doesn’t know what’s happening 我的家人不知道发生了什么
[31:06] they, they’re not aware 他们完全不知情
[31:08] I don’t think I’ll be able to keep the family ties 可能这件事后跟他们
[31:14] that I’ve had for all my life 就没办法保持家庭联系了
[31:17] uh, because of the risk of associating them with this 因为和他们联系有风险
[31:22] And I’ll, I’ll leave, you know, what to publish on this 什么文件该公布 什么不该公布
[31:25] what not to publish to you guys 都由你们来决定
[31:27] I trust you’ll be responsible on this 我相信你们会负起这个责任
[31:31] But basically the closer I stay to my family 如果我靠我的家人太近
[31:35] the more likely they are to be leaned on, you know 他们越有可能被牵连
[31:38] So you don’t want me to put them into this? 所以你不想让我们把他们卷进来
[31:39] I mean we don’t… 我们不会…
[31:40] Yeah, we definitely want to do whatever we can 我们会尽一切全力
[31:42] not to include them or bring them into the mix 不把他们牵扯进来
[31:45] I-I-I, I won’t 我不会的
[31:48] I’m sorry 不好意思
[31:49] Can we just stop for a second 我们可以这把这个停一下
[31:50] do the document and then we go back to that? 先看看文件再回来讨论这个吗
[31:53] What do I need is email address that you were using or 我现在是需要你的邮箱地址还是…
[31:57] Well, so you can send, what you encrypted 你可以发送加密的文件
[32:00] you can send for whatever you think is appropriate 或者其他你觉得合适的东西
[32:03] The main thing is that you have to capsulate all of this 主要就是把要发送的东西加密
[32:05] in a way that it can’t be decrypted or read 这样在发送的过程中
[32:10] when it’s in-transit across the network 就不会被别人拦截解密
[32:12] right 好的
[32:12] Or on either of the end point 这样在发送接收两端也不会被解开
[32:14] Ok, I mean just these documents are basically all gonna be public like 这些文件在接下来的48或72小时内
[32:18] you know, in 48 hours or 72 houses, whatever 都会被公开
[32:21] Yeah, this is, this is simply you know you want to 你只用
[32:23] get into the process doing this for everything 开始做就行了
[32:24] because it seems hard, but it’s not hard 看起来很难 做起来很简单
[32:26] Ok 好的
[32:26] This is super easy 真的超级简单
[32:27] So, just walk me through it and… 你再解释一遍给我听然后…
[32:29] Ok, show me the actual folder structure where these files are first 先点到那些文件的目录
[32:37] How many documents are just sitting there? 那里有多少文件
[32:39] 7 7份
[32:40] I can give you if you want 如果你想要我也可以给你一份
[32:42] Ok 好
[32:44] How many documents are we talking about? 我们手上有多少文件
[32:46] Because let me get into Wikileaks 像维基解密
[32:48] technical people set up a system so that 技术人员创立这样一个系统
[32:51] It will be available for anybody to see 别人都可以看到
[32:53] and I just wonder if it’s possible to do the same thing 我想是不是我们也可以这样做
[32:57] That, that would be the ideal end game 这是最理想的结果
[33:01] But because, uh, because some of these documents are legitimately classified 有些文件的保密虽然是合法的
[33:07] in ways it could cause harm to people and methods 但这种保密会对民众和行事方式造成危害
[33:11] And I’m comfortable in my technical ability to protect them 我觉得我的技术能力还是可以保护好这些文件的
[33:15] I mean you can literally shoot me or torture me 你可以拿枪打我 折磨我
[33:17] and I could not disclose the password if I wanted to 但是我不会告诉你密码
[33:21] Uh, you know, I have this sophistication to do that 我有能力做到这些
[33:25] There are some journalists that I think could do that 有些记者也可以做到
[33:29] but there are a number of them that couldn’t 但有一些就不行
[33:31] But the question becomes can an organization actually 现在问题是一个组织是否也能够
[33:36] control that information in that manner 用这种方式保护这些信息
[33:40] without risking basically uncontrol this closure 不让它被公开
[33:43] But I do agree with that 但是我还是同意这个想法的
[33:45] Honestly, I don’t want to be the person making decisions 实话说 我不想由我来决定
[33:49] on what should be public or what shouldn’t 哪些能公布 哪些不能
[33:51] which is why rather than publishing these on my own 所以比起让我自己做决定
[33:54] or putting them out openly 或者直接全部公开
[33:56] I’m running them through journalists 我把这些文件交给你们记者
[33:58] So my bias, you know is my thing 我是有自己的偏见的
[34:01] Because clearly I have some strongly held views 这样就可以
[34:04] are moved from that equation 消除我个人观点的影响
[34:06] The public interest is being represented 用最负责的方式
[34:08] in a most responsible manner 代表公众的利益
[34:10] Yeah 对
[34:11] Actually given, given your sort of, you know, geographic familiarity with UK 比方说一些 你对英国非常熟悉
[34:20] I’d like to point out that GCHQ has uh, probably 我想说英国政府通信总部的网络拦截计划
[34:27] the most invasive network intercept program anywhere in the world 可能是世界上最具有入侵性的
[34:33] Yeah, yeah 嗯
[34:34] It’s called Tempora, T-E-M-P-O-R-A 这个计划名叫Tempora
[34:38] And it’s the world’s first full-take, they call it 他们叫它世界上第一个信息全揽
[34:42] that means content in addition to metadata on everything 意思是对一切事物 除了元数据之外的内容记录
[34:48] Uh, so, this is what I’d like to do just in terms of scheduling 我想做个时间安排
[34:51] If it’s good with everybody else 看看大家是不是都同意
[34:52] -Are you, you’re feeling you’re done? -I’m, I’m done -你的问题结束了吗 -我好了
[34:56] So, I’m interested go back to get some coze time 我想再有时间多聊聊
[35:01] And there’s a bunch of documents 有很多文件
[35:03] that aren’t about this first reference story 跟第一篇报道的内容无关
[35:05] that I’d like to spend some time with you 我想再多问问你
[35:06] Sure 好的
[35:07] You know, kind of going it over 我想对文件仔细地了解一遍
[35:08] Oh, I’m not going anywhere 哦 我想留在这里
[35:10] Do you feel like you’re available 你觉得你有空吗
[35:11] You want to check about it first? 你想看看你的日程计划吗
[35:12] Let me check my schedule 那我看看我有没有空
[35:15] It that good for you? You wanna… 劳拉你有空吗 你想…
[35:17] -it’s great -OK -我可以 -那好
[35:34] Hello 你好
[35:36] Yes? 什么事
[35:38] My meal was great, thank you very much 我吃得很好 非常感谢
[35:43] uh, no, I still have some left there 我还有一些剩
[35:45] I think I’m gonna be eating it later 我会迟点吃
[35:46] so you can just leave me alone for now 你不用管我
[35:51] Ok, great, thank you so much 好的 好的 谢谢你
[35:53] Have a good one, bye 用餐愉快 再见
[35:57] Fix that real quick 很快弄好
[36:02] So, now the phone thing I was always worried about 这个电话我一直很担心
[36:04] These, all these new VoIP phones 这些网络电话
[36:06] they have little computers in them 他们都有内置的微型电脑
[36:07] And you can hot mike these over the network all the time 就算听筒坏了
[36:10] even when their receiver’s down 你也可以通过网络进行对话
[36:12] As long as it’s plug in, I can be listening on you 只要电话线插着就可以窃听
[36:14] Ok 嗯
[36:15] I haven’t even considered that earlier, but yeah 我以前都没想到 但是
[36:18] There are so many ways… 反正还是有很多方法…
[36:19] This could be, everything in here 现在这里的事情
[36:22] is pretty much gonna be a public record at some point 以后可能都要公布的
[36:24] We should operate on that 我们应该考虑到这点
[36:26] Yeah, yeah 对 对
[36:28] Basically, so do you have your, your machine? 你电脑带了吗
[36:30] I do I do 带了 带了
[36:31] Pop that out 拿出来吧
[36:36] Do you have an understanding of your commitment 关于报道这个泄密文件的事
[36:37] when you guys are going to press with the first stories? 你们都知道要干什么了吗
[36:40] Uh, It’s about 7:30 in the morning in London 明天早上7点30去伦敦
[36:43] Un-ha, Ok 好的
[36:47] Let’s see here 让我看一下
[36:59] Pro Tip let’s not leave the same SD card 小提示 以后千万不要把同一张SD卡
[37:01] in your laptops forever in the future 长时间留在你的手提电脑上
[37:10] Did you know this is for store kicking aorund 你知道这是为了你手提电脑的
[37:12] in your, in your laptop 信息储存着想吗
[37:14] Yeah, I mean that was the 我知道 那个东西是…
[37:15] Ok, ok, just, just make it sure 好的 好的 我只是想确认一下
[37:17] Ok, yeah 好吧
[37:19] This is … 这是…
[37:21] You’ll have a new one looking exactly identical 你会有一个长得一模一样的
[37:24] that’s a different archive 但是里面文档不同
[37:25] So you may want to take a sharpie to it or something 可能你要做一下标记
[37:28] Could you pass me my magic manteau of power, sir 能不能把我的神奇力量头套递给我
[37:33] I’m gonna go get that 我帮你拿
[37:40] Is that about the possibility of… 这样是为了…
[37:43] Visual, visual collection 防止别人看到
[37:52] I don’t think this points to anything 戴这个头套除了吓吓我们
[37:53] in this regard, that will shock us 我觉得没什么用
[37:56] We become pretty… 我们都变得…
[37:58] …before he’s like, he’s like 之前他就说
[38:00] I’m never leaving my room, 说我以后再也不会…
[38:01] I’m never leaving anything in my room again, not a single machine 我以后再也不会把任何设备单独留在房间里
[38:04] I was like you’ve been effected by the paranoid of … 我说你都疯了
[38:09] In a way that was like I will never leaving a single device 他就一直说我以后再也不会把任何
[38:12] I will never leaving them again 设备单独留在什么地方
[38:22] alright, I’m gonna need you two enter your root password 我现在需要你输入根密码
[38:25] because I don’t know what it is 我不知道你密码多少
[38:28] If, if you want to use this you’re more than welcome 如果你想用这个千万别客气
[38:31] Ok 好
[38:32] It looks like your root password is about four characters long 你的根密码好像只有4位
[38:34] It usually is a lot longer 以前我的密码是长的
[38:35] but that’s just like a one time only thing right? 但是这个密码输入是一次性的
[38:37] So it is 所以…
[38:39] It had been a lot longer 以前是长的
[38:40] but ever since I knew it was just like a one time only session 但是我后来知道这个原来是一次性的
[38:43] I have been making it shorter 我就弄了个短的
[38:45] Is that not good? 这样不好吗
[38:46] It’s, it’s actually not 当然不好
[38:46] I wasn’t expressing this with Laura either 我也没跟劳拉说过
[38:49] That issue is because of the fact the it’s got to harbor your IP address 这样可以保护你的IP地址
[38:52] People are able to identify your machine and they will able to… 因为别人能认出来这台电脑是你的然后就会…
[38:58] I guess this is the fact that you’re about to break the most upsetting story 我猜这才是你要公布这些秘密的原因
[39:00] Right 对
[39:00] Yeah 是
[39:01] So they might kind prioritize… 他们可能会优先…
[39:03] It’s ten-letter 我以前密码是10位
[39:04] I type it very quickly 我输入输得很快
[39:05] it’s actually ten letter 我以前密码真的是10位
[39:06] so ten letters would be good if they had to look through entire key’s base 如果他们要所有密码都找过来的话 10位会比较好
[39:12] That would still probably go through a couple of days for NSA 这样就算国家安全局也要花好几天时间
[39:18] That’s a fire alarm 这个是火警警报
[39:21] Ok 嗯
[39:23] I, hopefully it’s just some, like a 30-seconds test or just 我希望这个只是个半分钟测试或者…
[39:28] Do you wanna call the desk and ask? 你要不要打电话给前台问问
[39:31] no 别
[39:32] I think it’s fine 我觉得应该没事
[39:33] Yeah, I don’t think it is an issue but it’s interesting that it just… 这个不是什么问题 但是有意思的是…
[39:36] Did it happen before? 以前有没有响过
[39:37] Maybe they got mad 可能他们怒了
[39:38] they couldn’t listen to us through the phone anymore 因为不能再通过电话窃听我们
[39:42] Is fire alarm going off before? 以前火警警报有没有响过
[39:45] No, that’s the first time that’s happened 没有 这是第一次
[39:48] I mean, I think just in case they got like an alert thing to go to 把电话线拔了防止警报再响
[39:53] That’s unusual 太不寻常了
[39:57] You’ve probably… 你可能要…
[39:59] I might have to ask that 我可能要去问问
[40:00] Shouldn’t ignore that 现在不能掉以轻心
[40:01] I don’t know. 我也不知道
[40:03] I think it was… 我觉得这个…
[40:04] It’s ok, ok. It not continues 好了 好了 没响了
[40:05] It not continues 没响了
[40:07] No, I’m just saying if it…if it continues 呃 我是说如果它一直响的话…
[40:13] Let me go 让我去吧
[40:14] Let me take eyes down 我去
[40:16] Yeah, alright 好吧
[40:17] Yeah 好吧
[40:19] Yeah, let’s, let’s, let’s ease for now, let me, uh, finish this up 那现在把这个先放放 我要先把这个弄好
[40:26] Alright 好的
[40:36] no one answers because they like have 7000 calls 还没人接 他们一天好像会接到很多电话
[40:43] Hi, we heard a loud buzzing on the 10th floor 你好 我们在十楼听见很响的铃声
[40:45] Can you tell us what that is? 你能告诉我们这是什么声音吗
[40:49] OK. OK, great, thank you, bye. 哦 好的 很好 谢谢你 再见
[40:55] Fire alarm testing maintenance. 是火警警报测试维护
[40:57] That’s good 还好
[40:57] Yeah. yeah 还好
[40:58] That’s what you wanna be here. 还好不是什么大事情
[40:59] Nice of them to, uh, 还好
[41:01] nice of them to let us know about that in advance 还好他们提前告诉我们
[41:07] Uh, I just wanna give you a kind of quick tour 我想向你们简单的介绍一下这些文件
[41:11] when Laura was looking at this 劳拉在看这个的时候
[41:12] she was kind of salivating 震惊地一直咽口水
[41:13] and couldn’t stop like actually reading documents 根本停不下来
[41:15] Right, right, right. 是 是 是
[41:16] So what your…is about promising that will succeed 所以你的…承诺一定会成功
[41:19] Yeah. Yeah I just wanna kind of explain of brief overview of 对 对 我想简单的说一下
[41:22] what these are and how they are organized 这些是什么文件以及它们的组织结构
[41:24] The beginner is just some documents of interest 开头都是一些和利益有关的文件
[41:26] the primary purposes of second archive 第二文档
[41:28] is to bring the focus over to SSO 主要是集中在SSO上
[41:31] I suppose to present them 我应该展示一下
[41:33] this is in general, SSO is special source operations 总之 SSO是特殊消息处理组
[41:37] This is a worldwide passive collection on networks 它的功能是对网络信息进行被动收集
[41:41] that both domestic to the US and international 无论是美国国内的网络还是国际网络
[41:45] There’s a lot of different ways they do it 他们有很多不同的信息收集手段
[41:47] but corporate partnerships are one of the primary things 在国内他们的主要手段之一
[41:50] they do domestically 就是和企业进行合作
[41:51] they also do this with multinationals 对于总部设在美国的跨国公司
[41:53] that might be headquarter in the US 也同样适用
[41:54] or in the kind of co-owners 或者就是直接成为企业合伙人
[41:55] They just pay and to give them the access. 他们只需要付钱给合作公司然后提供系统访问权限
[41:57] And they also do bilaterally 而且他们还会选择
[41:59] with these systems of certain governments 和其他国家的政府系统进行双边合作
[42:01] and that’s based on the primary step 但都是建立在企业合作或合伙的基础上的
[42:03] they go like alright 他们就会说
[42:04] we will help you set the system up 我可以帮你们设置系统
[42:05] if you give us all the data from it 但是你要提供给我们系统收集的数据
[42:08] There’s, there’s, there’s a lot more here than 这里的文件很多
[42:13] any one person or probably one team can do 一个人甚至一个团队可能都弄不完
[42:15] Right 好的
[42:16] XKeyscore deep dive.XKeyscore in general, and there’s a huge 接下来是《XKeyscore deep dive》项目
[42:21] folder of documentation of XKeyscore, 这里有一个很大的文件夹专门用来储存有关
[42:22] of how it works, it is the front end system 《XKeyscore》项目以及它的运行方式
[42:25] that analysts use for querying that sort of ocean of raw signals 这是一个前段系统 是分析师用来分析我刚才说的
[42:29] that’s what I’m telling you about 搜集到的信息的原始信号
[42:30] All of that stuff where you can sort of do the retral active searches, 通过这个你可以进行倒带搜索
[42:33] live searches and get flagging on that 实时搜索 对信号进行标记
[42:36] XKeyscore is the front end for that 《XKscore》为这些而设计的一个前端系统
[42:40] I just gonna show you one slide here 我就给你们看一张
[42:41] ’cause Laura thought it was valuable 因为劳拉说这个太重要的
[42:44] Let’s talk about, kind of how these capabilities ramp up 我们现在来说说这个系统是如何达到
[42:49] in sophistication over time 现在这么精密的一个程度的
[42:52] This is kind of nice 好的
[42:53] As of fiscal year of 2011 在2011年
[42:55] They could monitor 1 billion telephone and internet sessions 每一台装有这个系统的设备
[42:59] simultaneously per one of these devices 可以同时监控10亿台电话和网络
[43:02] and they can collect at the rate of 他们的搜集速度
[43:04] about 125 gigabytes a second which is a terabit 可以达到10亿字节每秒 也就是万亿比特
[43:09] That’s for just each one of these devices? 就一台机器吗
[43:11] That’s for each one of these, yeah. 对 就一台机器
[43:13] How many tera-machines would there be then 那这样的机器一共有多少台
[43:15] Un, Per this, back then 呃 那时候…
[43:17] There were 20 sites, there’s ten at DOD installations 一共有20个设置地点 国防部有10台
[43:21] But these were all outdated 但这些都已经非常旧了
[43:23] We’ve expanded pretty rapidly 因为我们发展地很快
[43:26] But still 20 sites that’s at least 20 billion 但是设置地点还是20个 起码可以监控200亿
[43:29] This all needs to get out 这些信息都需要公布出去
[43:30] You know what I mean, it’s like 而且 你知道
[43:32] just in terms of understanding, 就靠普通人的理解能力
[43:35] the capabilities it’s so opaque 还真的听不懂
[43:39] It’s not science fiction. 这不是科幻小说
[43:40] The stuff is happening right now 这是正在发生的真实的事情
[43:41] No, I mean it’s like, the magnitude of it and like 我的意思是 事关重大
[43:45] this is a pretty inaccessible technical document 一般人根本看不到这些技术文件
[43:48] Yes 说的是
[43:49] But even this like, this is really chilling 但还是让人觉得毛骨悚然
[43:52] you know what I mean and, yeah, we should have, 对于是否让政府对我们进行监控
[43:54] we should be having the debates about whether we want government to … 我觉得应该让大家辩论决定
[43:58] I mean this is massive and extraordinary 这件事波及范围广 事态严重
[44:00] it’s, it’s amazing 太出人意料了
[44:02] Even though you know it…You know, even though you know that 即使你知道 即使你知道现在
[44:04] to see it like physical blueprints of it 看的是项目蓝图*
[44:08] and sort of technical expressions of it brutally hits home 以及一些技术性词汇的表达 对你产生心理冲击
[44:12] like a super …, that is so needed 但这些就像超级一样 我们很需要这个
[44:20] This is CNN breaking news 现在是CNN重大新闻
[44:22] 数百万的美国公民电话记录遭收集 \h\h\h\h\h\h\h\h\h\h\h\h\h\h\h秘密项目曾阻止恐怖袭击
[44:23] An explosive new report is reigniting other concerns 为了国家安全 公民隐私受侵犯的爆炸性新闻
[44:24] 数百万的美国公民电话记录遭收集 \h\h\h\h\h\h\h政府监听威瑞森通讯公司电话
[44:26] that your privacy is being violated to protect America’s security. 再一次引起人们对隐私的担忧
[44:30] It reveals a court order giving 该新闻披露法院
[44:32] the National Security Agency of blanketed access 秘密授权美国国家安全局
[44:35] to millions of Verizon customers’ records on a daily basis 对威瑞森公司百万客户进行日常的通讯记录收集
[44:39] earlier I had the chance to conduct the first TV interview with the reporter 早前 我对报道该新闻的卫报记者格伦·格林沃尔德
[44:42] who broke the story wide open, Glenn Greenwald of the Guardian 做了首次电视采访
[44:48] congratulations on the scoop 恭喜你披露了这么大的一个新闻
[44:49] Explain for our viewers why this is important 能跟我们的观众就这件事的重要性做一个解释吗
[44:53] It’s important because people have understood that the law 大家都知道这件事能够进行
[44:56] that this was done under which is the the Patriot Act 都是因为爱国者法案
[44:59] the act in the wake of 911 was a law 这个法案是在911事件之后通过的
[45:01] that allowed government very broad powers to get records 在常规情况下
[45:04] about people with a lower level of suspicion in a probable cause, the traditional standard 它给予政府更大的权力对嫌疑人进行信息收集
[45:10] so it’s always been assumed that under the Patriot Act 普遍认为根据爱国者法案
[45:12] if the government has even any suspicion that you were involved in a crime or terrorism 如果政府有理由怀疑你涉嫌犯罪或恐怖事件
[45:16] they can get a lot of information about you 他们就可以对你进行大量的信息收集
[45:18] what this court order does that makes it so striking is that 此次法院颁布的授权命令这么惊人
[45:21] it’s that it’s not direct at any individuals 是因为这不是针对那些
[45:23] who they believe or have suspicion, uh committing crimes or part of terrorism organization 犯罪嫌疑人或恐怖分子个人的
[45:28] it’s collecting the phone records of every single customer of Verizon business 而是针对威瑞森公司每一个用户
[45:33] and finding out every single call that they’ve made internationally and locally 收集他们所有的境内外通话记录
[45:37] so it’s indiscriminate and it’s sweeping 几乎是不分青红皂白 扫荡式地进行
[45:39] 国家安全局监听威瑞森通讯公司电话 要求公司移交数百万美国公民的相关记录
[45:40] it’s a government program designed to collect information about all Americans 这是一个政府用来收集所有美国人信息的计划
[45:43] not just people where they believe 不是只针对个别
[45:45] there’s a reason to think they’ve done anything wrong 他们有理由怀疑的嫌疑人
[46:47] Yeah, it’s, it’s a tough situation 目前我的处境很艰难
[46:49] You know, hearing that the person that you love 听到你爱的人
[46:52] that you spent decades with may not be coming back 共同生活了十几年的人可能就要离开你了
[47:01] What did they ask her? 他们问了她什么
[47:04] When was the last time she saw me 她最后一次见我是在什么时候
[47:07] Where am I 我现在在哪里
[47:08] What am I doing 我在做什么
[47:10] you know what did she know about my illness 知不知道我生病了
[47:13] things like that 之类的问题
[47:17] so, the other, uh, they are pretty, thoroughly aware 其他事情他们很明显都知道
[47:23] because I’m clearly not at home ill 因为我根本没有生病在家
[47:49] Hello 你好
[47:50] Hello 你好
[47:51] Hello 你好
[47:52] Oh man I’m just disconnecting from the internet 我断一下网
[47:57] So there’s something news? 有新的消息吗
[48:01] Yes, there was indeed some news. 还真的有新消息
[48:03] I have config today I think maybe just a few hours ago 几个小时前有信息显示
[48:08] What kind of people visited 来的是什么人
[48:11] an HR lady 一位自称是来自人力资源管理部门的女士
[48:14] I’m assuming from NSA is supposed to, is supposed to Booz Allen 我猜应该是国家安全局到博思艾伦咨询公司的人
[48:19] because she’s a complete white police officer which means the NSA police 她是个白人女警 可能是国家安全局的
[48:23] They are planning breaking my house 他们今天想要闯入我家
[48:24] which regular police don’t do 一般的警察不会这么做
[48:27] Does she live there? 她住在那里吗
[48:28] Yeah, she lives there. So I told her to corporate fully 对 我告诉她要全力配合
[48:32] I can’t hang my phone, just one second 我现在不能挂电话 等我一下
[48:34] You know worry about herself 我跟她说多担心担心自己吧
[48:35] You know, I’m gonna do, I’ll just take out the stuff I want to use 我拿一下要用东西
[48:38] OK 好
[48:40] OK. Well, look, I mean this is not a surprise at all 这件事完全在意料之内
[48:43] Not, yeah, I know 对 我知道
[48:44] I planed for it but it’s just you know when its’ impact 这一切都在计划之中
[48:46] and they’re talking to you it’s a little bit different 但是真的发生了感觉还是有点不一样
[48:49] absolutely 这是肯定的
[48:51] But it’s possible that they’ just notice that you are missing 他们有可能发现你失踪了
[48:54] I guess it’s not really impossible 有可能
[48:56] It-it-it-is, but yeah there I mean 是有可能
[49:08] So I obviously was focused on the thing that appears this morning. 我还在想今天早上的事
[49:14] How was, how does she react 她是什么反应
[49:16] Was she relatively calm about it 是不是非常镇静
[49:17] She’s, she’s relatively calm 她相当镇静
[49:19] Does she know anything about what you are doing 她知不知道你做的事
[49:20] She has, she has no idea 完全不知道
[49:23] and that’s I mean, I feel badly about that 虽然我觉得不告诉她不好
[49:27] but that’s the only way I can think of where 但是这是唯一可以保全她的办法
[49:29] like she can’t be in trouble 她不能有危险
[49:31] Do you basically do ‘ I have to go somewhere 你有没有跟她说我要去个地方
[49:33] for reasons that I can’t tell you ‘ about kind of thing 但是不能告诉你之类的
[49:34] I just disappeared when she was on vacation 她去度假的时候我才离开的
[49:39] and I left notes saying hey I’d be going for a while for work 但是我留了纸条给她 说我要出差工作
[49:42] which isn’t unusual for me as my reasons you know, so 这个理由很对我来说已经是家常便饭了
[49:46] OK, let me ask you a couple of things just quickly 我想问你几个问题
[49:49] Are they gonna be able to go to your stuff and figure out what you talk 他们有没有可能拿到你留下来的东西 从中找到信息
[49:56] In some kind of some sort of like peripheral senses, but not necessarily 有可能 但不一定
[50:02] Yes, because I cast such a wide net 我撒了一个很大的网
[50:06] If they do that, the only thing they’re gonna do 如果他们这么做的话
[50:07] is they’re gonna have a hard attack 他们会遭到沉重打击
[50:08] ’cause they’re gonna go like 就算找到我的东西
[50:09] he has access to everything 他们只会觉得说 他什么都知道
[50:11] and they’re not gonna know 但是具体我做了什么
[50:12] what specifically has been done 他们就完全摸不着头脑
[50:14] I think they’re gonna start to actually feel a little better 不管怎么样 他们不可能对这件事一直那么热衷
[50:17] although they are not gonna be wild about this in any case 等到事情告一段落 我觉得他们就会开始自我感觉良好
[50:22] When they see that the story is a kind of cleaving to a trend, you know 因为找我 不像是给一个单子说
[50:25] it’s not like here’s the list of everybody who works everywhere 这个人在哪儿工作那么简单
[50:28] Right. 说的对
[50:29] I also think you know 但是我觉得有可能他们
[50:30] they’re gonna be paranoid in the extreme 会变成一个非常极端的偏执狂
[50:32] and assuming all kinds of worst case scenarios which is gonna you know 假设各种最坏的情况
[50:37] I think, make them react unwisely 然后作出一些不恰当的回应
[50:40] They are probably not gonna be particularly rational in their part 有可能他们会采取比较不理智的方法
[50:44] but at the same time there’s 但是同时我也觉得
[50:46] I do think they are limited for the moment 政府目前所有的行为都是受到限制的
[50:49] I, I agree and I mean I had kind of time 我同意你的看法 我觉得应该要让
[50:52] to set a stage where 事情发展到能给我们提供
[50:53] we all enjoy at least a minimum level of protection 起码的保护的地步
[50:56] you know no matter who we are 不管我们的身份
[50:57] who’s involved in this you know 不管我们是不是参与到这件事情中
[50:58] you’re either a journalist 不管是不是记者
[50:59] Right. 对
[51:00] or you’re either out of jurisdiction 不管是不是在这个范围之内
[51:01] so we have some time to play this 所以在政府开始有所行动之前
[51:03] before they can really investigate 我们还有时间
[51:04] I think it’s over you know the weeks 等他们的律师做好准备
[51:06] when they have time to get lawyers really sort to go 大概需要几个星期的时间
[51:08] This is a special situation how can we interpret this tour in advance 情况太特殊了 对接下来的事情我们要怎么预测
[51:12] like we see them do this all the time you know 根据19世纪40年代的法律
[51:14] whether it’s drones or wiretapping whatever the go 不管是无人机 窃听装置 还是其他的手段
[51:17] while according to this law from the 1840s 他们就一直在我们眼皮子底下进行信息收集
[51:20] and we can actually explain why there is this authority 政府的所作所为虽然也能得到解释
[51:23] But that takes time 但是要让一切都被接受还是需要时间
[51:24] and that takes agreement 以及民众的同意
[51:25] Yeah, you know, I mean, I think they are public 对 我认为他们一切行动都在明处
[51:28] we are out there to, as journalists 作为记者
[51:31] the more protection that’s gonna give us as well 我们可能可以得到更多的保护
[51:34] Have you started to give thought 你决定好什么时候
[51:35] to when you are ready to come forward 亮明身份了吗
[51:37] I’m, I’m ready whenever 什么时候都可以
[51:40] honestly I think there’s sort of agreement 我觉得大家都同意
[51:43] that is not going to bias the reporting process 新闻报道中心不能走偏
[51:46] that’s my primary concern at this point 这是我目前最担心的
[51:48] I don’t want to give myself into the issue of 对于即将发生的事情
[51:50] what’s gonna happening anyway and 我不想让自己成为中心
[51:51] where it takes away from stories 这会把注意力从他们发表的报道上
[51:54] they are getting out 都转移到我身上
[52:34] We are talking about tens of millions of Americans 我们现在的话题是成千上万的美国公民
[52:36] who weren’t suspected in doing anything 即使没有犯罪的嫌疑
[52:39] who were surveilled in this way 也正在以这种方式被监控着
[52:41] Here are thoughts for a moment 大家想一想
[52:42] I’d like to continue this conversation 我想继续讨论这个话题
[52:43] There are really important sensitive issues 这些是非常重要非常敏感的事情
[52:45] the public out there has a right to know 公众有权利知道事情的真相
[52:47] what’s going on standby 有权知道到底发生了什么
[52:49] This is CNN Breaking News. 现在是CNN最新新闻
[52:52] Another explosive article has just appeared this time 又一爆炸性新闻
[52:54] in the Washington Post on its Breaking News 刊登在了华盛顿邮报最新新闻的板块上
[52:57] it reveals another broad and secret 揭示了美国政府
[53:00] US government surveillance program. 另一监视计划
[53:02] The Washington Post and Guardian in London 美国华盛顿邮报和英国卫报
[53:04] reporting that the NSA and the FBI 报道了美国国家安全局和美国联邦调查局
[53:07] are tapping directly into the central servers 直接进入美国九大网络公司的中心服务器
[53:10] of nine leading internet companies 搜集数据
[53:12] including Microsoft, Yahoo, Google, Facebook 包括微软 雅虎 谷歌 脸书
[53:15] AOL, Skype, YouTube and Apple 美国在线 Skype YouTube和苹果
[53:18] The Post says they are extracting audio, video 华盛顿邮报称他们搜集语音 视频
[53:21] photographs, emails, documents 照片 电子邮件 文件和连接日志
[53:23] and connection logs that enable analysts 根据这些 分析员可以掌握
[53:26] to track a person’s movements 一个人的行踪
[53:27] and contacts over time 以及社交情况
[53:29] Let’s discuss this latest revelation 接下来我们将就最新的报道进行讨论
[53:32] that coming out fast 这一报道的进展速度很快
[53:33] go Binney, the former official of NSA 宾尼是2001年辞职的前国家安全局官员
[53:35] who quit back in 2001 你先来谈谈吧
[53:38] you were anger of what was going on 以前你对国家安全局的所作所为感到不满
[53:39] you’ve been known as whistleblower right now 一直以来 你也被称作告密者
[53:41] Though what do you think about this Washington Post story? 你是怎样看待华盛顿邮报所披露的事件的
[53:44] Well I assume it’s just the continuation 我认为这是
[53:46] of what they’ve been doing all along. 国家安全局一直以来的监视计划的延续而已
[53:47] So you are not surprised 所以你一点也不吃惊
[53:48] Not at all. 是的
[53:49] Do you have any ideas of who’s leaking this information 你知道是谁泄露这些消息的吗
[53:51] I don’t know who leaked this 我不知道是谁泄露的
[53:53] but I have no doubt that 但是我确信
[53:55] the administration will launch an investigation 他们并不会去调查
[53:57] not into who approve these programs 是谁批准了这些计划
[53:59] but into who leaked the information. 还是去调查是谁泄露了秘密
[54:01] I’m not shocked the companies deny it yet 这些公司矢口否认我对此不感到吃惊
[54:04] I don’t assume…. 我并不是说…
[54:05] He blamed it 他是在谴责这件事
[54:06] There maybe some technical bases 他们可以用一些技术问题当做借口
[54:08] on which they can say that we are not actively collaborating or 说他们不是主动收集资料
[54:12] they don’t have what we consider in narrow definition 我们认为的”直接进入服务器”
[54:15] to be direct access to our servers 跟他们想的不一样
[54:17] But I do know is that 但是我能肯定的是
[54:18] I’ve talked to more than one person 因为我跟很多人谈过
[54:19] who has sat at a desk 他们坐在办公桌前
[54:22] added a web portal and typed out commands 进入一个门户网站 输入命令之后
[54:25] and reached into those servers from the distance 就能远程进入服务器
[54:28] so whatever they wanna call that 所以 无论他们怎么说
[54:30] that’s what happening. 这就是事实
[54:31] What, What I will call it is the single biggest infringement 我觉得它是到目前为止
[54:34] on American civil liberties probably all-time, isn’t it 对美国公民自由权利的最大的侵犯 是吧
[54:37] Politicians already have the New York Time now today 今天 政客们都已经拿到了纽约时报
[54:39] saying the administration 报纸上说
[54:40] has lost all credibility 奥巴马政府已经失去了所有公信力
[54:41] Yeah, the New York Time slammed 对 纽约时报就用这件事
[54:43] President Obama for this 猛喷奥巴马总统
[54:44] Frankly I was used to that 老实说 我已经对此见怪不怪了
[54:45] The New York Time just slammed George Bush 纽约时报也因为小布什
[54:47] for protecting the country for the steps he took 做的保护国家政策喷过他
[54:49] I don’t wanna start to drop our guard 我不想放松警惕
[54:50] I don’t want us to be stuck again 我也不想让大家再上当受骗
[54:52] As we saw in Boston, Anderson 和我们在波士顿看到的一样 安德森
[54:54] people are willing to sacrifice their civil liberties, 人们很乐意牺牲自己的自由
[54:57] people sheltered inside ’cause they’re not… 他们住在自己的房子里因为他们没有…
[54:59] How can you believe in freedom, do you think 现在还怎么相信自由 你说
[55:00] I mean, try play the devil’s advocate for me 让我来说几句大实话
[55:02] When you have secret courts, 一个国家有秘密法庭
[55:03] secret operations like prison, secret investigations 秘密操作的东西 比如说监狱 秘密调查
[55:08] which is going to ever… call for every America’s live 对每个美国人的通话都进行监控
[55:11] without any member of the American public knowing about it 但是美国公民对此却一无所知
[55:13] that’s not freedom, isn’t it 这还是自由吗
[55:14] In 2008 they eliminated the warrant requirement 在2008年 政府决定
[55:17] for all conversations 除了他们在美国收买美国人
[55:19] expect one that takes place 协助监听活动的对话外
[55:21] buying among the Americans 民众对话的监听
[55:22] exclusively on the American soil 不需要获得批准
[55:24] So they don’t need warrants now for people 所以现在对在国外的外国人
[55:26] who are foreigners outside the US 监听他们更不需要许可了
[55:28] but they also don’t need warrants for Americans 但是现在就算是在美国的美国人
[55:31] in the United States communicating with people 只要和他们认为是在国外的人进行通讯
[55:33] reasonably believed to be outside of the US. 他们也可以不经过许可就监听通讯
[55:36] So again the fact they are no checks, 所以事实就是
[55:38] no oversight about who’s looking over the NSA shoulder 国家安全局不受任何审查或监督
[55:41] means they can take whatever they want 这就意味着他们私底下
[55:42] and in fact that it was behind the wall of secrecy 想拿什么就拿什么
[55:45] and they threaten people who want to expose it 他们还威胁想要曝光他们人
[55:47] means that whatever they are doing 他们现在不管做什么
[55:49] even violating the law 就算是违法行为
[55:50] is something that we unlikely to know 我们也不知道
[55:52] until we start having real investigations 除非我们对政府行为
[55:54] and real transparency into 进行真正的调查
[55:56] what it is the government is doing. 要求透明公开
[55:58] Glenn Greenwald 格伦 格林沃德
[55:58] congratulations again on exposing what is a truth scandal 再一次恭喜你揭露了这一丑闻
[56:01] Appreciate you enjoying me 谢谢你的报道
[56:49] Yeah, I just heard from Lindsay 我和琳赛联系上了
[56:52] and she’s still alive which is good 她还活着这简直太好了
[56:56] and for my rent checks apparently 我的房租支票显然
[56:59] are no longer getting through to my landlord 没有再到我的房东手里
[57:02] so they said if we don’t pay them in five days 所以他们警告说5天之内不交房租
[57:04] we’ll be evicted 我们就会被赶出去
[57:06] which is strange 这太奇怪了
[57:07] because we’ve got a system set up 因为我们设置了一个系统
[57:08] to automatically pay them 会自动打钱给他们
[57:13] So this then, apparently these construction trucks 然后我家门外的街上
[57:15] are all over the street over my house 都是工程车
[57:22] I wonder what they are looking for 我想知道他们在找什么
[58:07] It is, it is an unusual… kinda hard to 这种感觉是很奇怪的
[58:11] hard like to describe or convey words 难以用语言来表达
[58:16] but not knowing what’s gonna happen in the next day 一个人不知道接下来的一个小时
[58:19] the next hour, the next week 一天甚至一个星期之内会发生什么
[58:21] It’s scary 这让人很害怕
[58:22] but at the same time it’s liberating 但同时我也觉得松了口气
[58:23] You know 你知道 相比之下
[58:26] The planning comes a lot easier 有计划 事情就会容易的多
[58:27] because you don’t have that many variables taken into play 因为没有很多变数
[58:30] you can only act and then act again 你只能一遍一遍照着做
[58:34] Now all these phone calls 现在所有的通话都有电子记录
[58:35] are being recorded digitally not for content 但不是记录谈话内容
[58:35] 今日美国 监视之眼 网络 从最大的公司挖掘数据 电话 数以百万的电话被监听
[58:37] but for origin and destination 而是为了记录呼叫人和被呼叫人
[58:39] now warm the government is going right 警告 现在政府可以直接进入
[58:41] into the servers of these large internet companies 大型网络公司服务器
[58:43] How does the government politically speaking 政府的理由是为了国家安全
[58:46] make the argument that this is essential to national security 而不是对个人隐私的侵犯
[58:49] and not a dramatic overreach in terms of personal privacy 他们是怎么解释的呢
[58:54] It’s difficult, Matt 马特 政府要进行解释真的很困难
[58:55] because as Peter was pointing out last night 正如昨晚皮特所说
[58:57] we had an extraordinary late night close to midnight 一切即将真相大白
[59:00] announcement and declassification from the director of National Intelligence 国家情报局局长发表了公告 实施解密
[59:04] they are scrambling 他们现在一片混乱
[59:05] the administrations are already supported strongly 政府已经获得了
[59:07] by leaders in both parties from the Intelligence Committees 情报委员会两大党派领导人的极力支持
[59:10] GCHQ has an internal Wikipedia at the top secret you know, 英国政府通信总部自己的机密文件都有内部文件百科
[59:15] super classified level 都是非常机密的文件
[59:16] where anybody working in Intelligence 任何在国家情报局工作的人
[59:18] can work on anything they want 都可以得到任何他们想要的信息
[59:19] Yeah 记住了
[59:20] That’s what it is. I’m giving it to you. 就是这个 我把它给你
[59:21] You can make the decisions on that 你来做决定
[59:23] what’s appropriate, what’s not. 什么该公布
[59:24] It’s gonna be documents of a few of different types, 这些都是不同形式的资料
[59:26] pictures, power points or documents, stuff like that 比如照片 幻灯片和文件 类似这些
[59:30] So can I take that seat 我能坐吗
[59:31] Yeah 当然
[59:36] So these documents they will show….. 所以这些资料内容是…
[59:39] Yeah, there will be a couple of more documents on that 文件百科里的资料更多
[59:41] That’s only one part though 现在这些只是一部分
[59:42] like talks about TEMPOR and a little more thing 都是有关《TEMPRO》和一些别的东西
[59:45] that’s the Wiki articles itself 但是文件百科里
[59:47] It was also talking about a self-developed tool called UDAQ, U-D-A-Q 还介绍了他们自己研发的UDAQ工具
[59:53] It’s their search tool for all the stuff they collected was what it looks like 用来搜索他们收集的资料
[59:57] It’s gonna be projects, 里面还有很多有关计划项目
[59:58] it’s gonna be trouble-shooting pages for particular tool 特殊工具故障维修的资料
[1:00:02] Thanks 谢谢
[1:00:05] When do you think you will be public? 你觉得你什么时候会亮明身份
[1:00:08] I think it’s pretty soon 很快
[1:00:10] I mean, with the reaction 我出现带来的影响
[1:00:11] it’s escalating more quickly 肯定会加速事态的发展
[1:00:12] I think pretty much as soon as 只要他们开始拿我作文章
[1:00:14] they start trying to make this about me 我就会现身
[1:00:16] which should be any day now 应该很快了
[1:00:17] Yeah 是
[1:00:19] I’ll come out, just go, hey, you know, 我会亮明身份
[1:00:21] this is, this is not a question of somebody 这件事不是说一个人
[1:00:24] skulking around in the shadows 藏在暗处偷偷摸摸地做事
[1:00:26] These are public issues 这些事事关公众
[1:00:27] these are not my issues, you know 并不是我一个人的事
[1:00:29] these are everybody’s issues 这是每个人的事
[1:00:31] and I’m not afraid of you, you know 我不怕他们
[1:00:33] you are not gonna bulling me into silence 他们可以把别人打到闭嘴
[1:00:34] like you’ve done to everybody else. 在我身上没用
[1:00:37] And if nobody else gonna do it 如果这件事没有人做
[1:00:38] I will 那么我会挺身而出
[1:00:39] and hopefully when I’m gone 希望死了我这个夏明翰
[1:00:41] whatever you do to me there will be somebody 后面还有后来人
[1:00:43] else will do the same thing 会做跟我同样的事
[1:00:44] It will be the sort of internet principle of Hydra. 就像九头蛇网络法则一样
[1:00:47] You know you can stop one person 一个人被阻止了
[1:00:49] but it’s gonna be seven more of us. 会有七个人再站出来
[1:00:51] Yeah. 是的
[1:00:55] Are you getting more nervous 你是不是觉得越来越紧张了
[1:00:57] Uh, I mean, no, I, I think the way I look at stress 没有 主要是我看待压力的方式
[1:01:06] particularly because I sort of knew this was coming 我知道会发生什么事
[1:01:09] you know, because I, sort of, volunteered to walk into it 这些事都是我自愿的
[1:01:16] I’m already sort of familiar with the idea 我已经很习惯这些想法了
[1:01:20] I’m not worried about 我不担心
[1:01:21] when somebody like, busts the door 如果有人突然破门而入
[1:01:23] suddenly I’ll get nervous and a little effected 那瞬间我是会受到影响 感到紧张
[1:01:25] but I totally do, you know 但是其实我真的不紧张
[1:01:29] I’m eating a little less that’s the only 我想我唯一的变化就是
[1:01:31] the only difference I think. 吃的比以前少了
[1:01:39] Let’s talk about the issue 我们来讨论一下
[1:01:40] with when we’re gonna say who you are 什么时候公布你的身份
[1:01:42] yeah 好
[1:01:44] This is you know, you have to talk me through this 我们必须要好好谈谈
[1:01:47] because I have a big worry about this 因为我很担心
[1:01:49] ok, tell me 好 说吧
[1:01:50] which is that if we come out 我担心 如果我们说出了你的身份
[1:01:53] and I know that you believe that your detection is inevitable 我知道你认为他们找到你是肯定的
[1:01:59] and it’s inevitable imminently 这也是早晚的事
[1:02:02] There’s you know in the New York Times today Charlie Savage 今天纽约时报的查理·萨维奇
[1:02:04] the fascinating Sherlock Holmes like of reporting 报道得跟福尔摩斯一样很吸引人
[1:02:08] did use that fact that 他说自从奥巴马上台后
[1:02:09] there’s been these leaks since succession 就有很多人开始泄密
[1:02:11] probably means there’s some one person who’s decided to leak as much as 这意味着有人想要爆料爆的越多…
[1:02:14] someone else supported you as saying I was one of your readers 有的人通过成为你的读者来支持你
[1:02:16] Yeah 是
[1:02:17] somebody else who put a lot of things 有的人则做事实
[1:02:18] I mean it’s fine 我想说的是 这没关系
[1:02:20] I want people, I want be like, you know like 我想让别人
[1:02:23] This is the person I want to start introducing the concept that 我想介绍你的时候
[1:02:26] this is a person who has a particular set of political objective 告诉他们你的目标是
[1:02:30] about informing the world 告诉世界
[1:02:31] of what is taking place 发生的一切
[1:02:32] you know, I didn’t show 我现在都没有亮明你的身份
[1:02:33] I’m keeping it all anonymous, totally 我写你都是匿名的
[1:02:36] But I wanna to start introducing you 但是我想以一种相比之下
[1:02:38] in that kind of incremental way 比较高调的方式介绍你
[1:02:40] but here’s, here’s the thing 问题是
[1:02:41] what I’m concerned about is that we come out and say 我担心我们把你身份公开以后
[1:02:45] here this is and here is what he did 就肯定会说到你做了什么事
[1:02:47] the whole thing that we talked about 然后公开我们说过的话
[1:02:48] then we’re basically be doing the government’s work for them 我们这样是在做政府该做的事
[1:02:51] we’re basically be handing them, you know, a confession 相当于是我们自己去告诉他们
[1:02:56] and helping them identify who found it 我们找到了泄密的人
[1:02:58] I mean maybe you’re right 也许你是对的
[1:02:59] maybe they will find out quickly 他们可能很快找到你
[1:03:01] and maybe they don’t know 也可能根本不知道是谁泄密
[1:03:02] but is there any possibity of they won’t 不是有没有这种可能性是他们没找到
[1:03:04] are we, are we kinda giving them stuff 我们相当于把他们要的东西双手奉上
[1:03:07] we don’t, or, or 我们不…
[1:03:09] there’s a possibility that they don’t want to reveal it 有可能他们已经知道了但是不想公开
[1:03:11] because they don’t know 因为他们不知道…
[1:03:12] Or that they don’t know 或者他们不知道
[1:03:13] what we are gonna telling them 我们这样就是主动去告诉他们
[1:03:14] Like is that possible that they’re gonna need like 也许 他们不确定的情绪可能会
[1:03:16] two or three months of uncertainty 持续两到三个月
[1:03:18] and we will gonna be solving that problem for them 我们这样是在帮他们解决问题
[1:03:20] or let me just say the all part 请允许我这样说
[1:03:23] maybe doesn’t matter to you 也许这些跟你没关系
[1:03:24] like maybe you want it… 也许是你想这么做…
[1:03:25] maybe I mean you are not coming out 也许 也许 你想现身
[1:03:28] because you think they’re inevitably gonna catch you 不是因为你觉得他们肯定会抓到你
[1:03:31] and you want to do it first 所以你选择主动现身
[1:03:33] you are coming up because you wanna fucking come out. 你想站出来就是因为你想站出来
[1:03:35] You want to be there 你想站出来
[1:03:36] I mean this is the thing 就是
[1:03:38] I don’t want to hide on this skulking around 我一点也不想躲躲藏藏
[1:03:40] I don’t think I should have to 我也不觉得我需要这样做
[1:03:42] Obviously there are circumstances they’re saying that 他们说特殊情况特殊处理
[1:03:44] I think it is powerful to come out and be like, 但我觉得先发制人更有力
[1:03:47] Look, I’m not afraid you know, 我并不害怕
[1:03:49] I don’t think other people should either, you know 我也不认为人们需要感到害怕
[1:03:51] I was sitting in the office right next to you last week 因为上周在办公室我就坐在你旁边
[1:03:54] You know, we all have stake in this 这件事跟每个人都有关系
[1:03:55] This is our country 这是我们的国家
[1:03:56] and the balance of power between the citizenry and the government 公民与政府间权利的平衡
[1:04:00] is becoming that of the ruling and the ruled 已经变成统治者与被统治者的关系
[1:04:03] as supposed to actually you know the elected and the electorate 但其实应该是当选人和选民的关系
[1:04:07] OK, so that’s what I need to hear. That, this is not about… 很好 这是我想听到的答案
[1:04:12] But I, I do wanna say I don’t think there is a case 在这么长的时间里
[1:04:15] that I’m not gonna be discovered in the fullness of time, 我不是说他们找不到我
[1:04:19] it’s just a question of time. 这只是时间问题
[1:04:20] You are right 你说得对
[1:04:20] you could take them a long time 他们要找到我可能是要花点时间
[1:04:21] I don’t think they will 但是我觉得不会太久
[1:04:22] but I didn’t try to hide the footprint because 但是我根本没想藏起来
[1:04:24] again I intended to come forward. 我是打算挺身而出的
[1:04:26] OK. 好的…
[1:04:27] I’m gonna post this morning 今天早上我会发表文章
[1:04:28] just a general defense of whistleblowers 为告密者进行辩护
[1:04:31] That’s fine 好的
[1:04:31] and you in particular, without saying anything about you 不会透露任何有关你身份的信息
[1:04:35] I’m gonna post that right when I get back 我一回去就马上报道
[1:04:36] And I, and I’m almost doing like a big fuck you to all the people 让那些一直说要对告密者进行调查的人
[1:04:38] who keep like, talking about investigation 去他妹的
[1:04:40] That, I want that to be fearlessness 我要大胆得做
[1:04:44] and fuck you to like the bowling attack 跟保龄球一样撞他妹的
[1:04:46] It’s got to be completely pervading, everything we do 我们接下来做什么事都要这么想
[1:04:50] And I think that’s brilliant 我觉得这个想法很好
[1:04:51] I mean your principles on this I love, I can support them of 你的原则我很喜欢 我也会全力支持
[1:04:55] because it is, it’s inverting the model 因为这样可以改变政府
[1:04:58] the government has laid out 他们不能再跟以前一样
[1:04:59] where people who were trying to, you know, say the truth, skulking round 用老一套对付那些讲真话的人 让他们躲躲藏藏
[1:05:02] they hide in the dark 藏在暗处
[1:05:03] they quote anonymously on that 匿名报信
[1:05:05] I say yes, fuck that 是的 去你的
[1:05:06] OK. Listen here’s the plan 听着 计划是这样的
[1:05:08] Then, I mean and this is the thing, 我认为我们都是做了
[1:05:10] it’s like I think we all just felt the fact this is the right way to do it 我们该做的事
[1:05:14] You feel the power of your choice 你的选择给予你力量
[1:05:17] you know what I mean 你明白我的意思
[1:05:18] It’s like I want that power to be felt in the world. 我想让世界也感受到这种力量
[1:05:20] OK 好
[1:05:21] And it is the big, 这是
[1:05:22] I mean it is the ultimate standing up to them, right? 这是和他们的终极对抗
[1:05:25] Like I’m not gonna fuck hide even for like one second 我他妈一秒都不想躲了
[1:05:28] I’m gonna get right into your face 我们直接去打他们的脸
[1:05:30] yeah 好
[1:05:31] You don’t have to investigate 你们不用再调查了
[1:05:32] ’cause now think, you investigate, here I am 现在我人就在这里
[1:05:34] Yeah 对
[1:05:35] you know and I think that’s just incredibly powerful 我认为这样超有气场
[1:05:38] and then the question just becomes 现在的问题就是
[1:05:40] how do we do this in the right you know the perfect way 我们如何把这件事做好做得完美
[1:05:43] and that’s my burden and that’s what I gonna… 这是我考虑了很久的事情…
[1:05:45] So today’s gonna be the story in the morning 今天的报道会在上午发布
[1:05:49] assuming that it doesn’t change in the Guardian man 卫报那边不变动的话
[1:05:51] it’s gonna be the story in the morning, 大概就是早上了
[1:05:52] Just keep them going, 就按计划进行下去
[1:05:53] just keep like the disclosure’s coming in big one at night 让这次的泄密泄得更猛烈一些
[1:05:57] now it’s becoming like OK, this is a major leak 然后变成一次大揭密
[1:06:01] and after today we post truth stuff that we’re gonna post 今天之后我们会发布真实文件
[1:06:04] It’s gonna be what the fuck is this leak and who did it 事情就会变成 我靠 这些都是谁干的
[1:06:08] I guarantee you 当然是你干的
[1:06:20] and it suppose to make sure, move over slightly 稍微挪一下
[1:06:22] you want me to move it more over 这样
[1:06:24] ok 好了
[1:06:26] alright, alright 好了好了
[1:06:29] we’re rolling 开始录了
[1:06:30] So let’s begin with some basic background information, like just state your name 先从你的一些基本信息开始吧 比如你的名字
[1:06:35] what positions you held in Intelligence Community 你以前在情报机构的职位
[1:06:37] and how long you worked with that community 你在那里工作了多久
[1:06:41] ok 好的
[1:06:42] just more regard how in depth… 就是不要太深入
[1:06:44] just in general, like I’m currently an infrastructure analyst in Booz Allen Hamilton 像我是博思艾伦谘询公司的基础设施分析员
[1:06:49] not going through my whole back story 就不用讲我整个背景经历是吗
[1:06:51] yeah 对
[1:06:51] ok 好的
[1:06:52] just like, yes, some brief kind of… 就简洁一点
[1:06:54] OK 好
[1:06:55] My name is Edward Snowden, I’m 29 years old 我叫爱德华·斯诺登 29岁
[1:06:58] I worked for Booz Allen Hamilton as an infrastructure analyst 我就职于夏威夷 国家安全局的承包商
[1:07:02] for NSA in Hawaii 博思艾伦谘询公司
[1:07:05] And what are some of positions you have held previously within the intelligence community? 你以前在情报机构担任过什么职位
[1:07:09] I’ve been a system engineer, a system administrator, 我担任过系统工程师 系统管理员
[1:07:14] a senior adviser for the Central Intelligence Agency 中央情报局高级顾问
[1:07:20] a solutions consultant and a telecommunications information system officer 解决方案顾问 电信信息系统官员
[1:07:26] And what kind of clearance have you held, the kind of classification 你的权限能看到最高几级机密信息
[1:07:30] Top secret 最高机密
[1:07:36] So people in my level of access for system administration 像我一样的系统管理员
[1:07:40] or as an infrastructure analyst 或者基础设施分析员
[1:07:42] typically have a higher access 我们的访问权限
[1:07:45] than a NSA employee would normal have 比普通国家安全局雇员高一点
[1:07:48] normal NSA employees have combination of clearances 普通国家安全局雇员的权限密码
[1:07:51] called TS SI TK and GEMA 称为TS SI TK和GEMA
[1:07:57] That’s top secret signals of intelligence Talent-Keyhole, GEMA 这些都是最高机密的象征 Talent-Keyhole Gema
[1:08:02] they all relate to certain things they’re sort of core to the NSA mission 它们都和国家安全局的任务核心有关系
[1:08:06] As a system administrator 如果是系统管理员
[1:08:09] you get a special clearance called privi-acc for privileged access 你可以拿到名为PRIVAC的特殊访问权限
[1:08:12] which allows you to be exposed to information of any classification 不管你的职位等级是多少
[1:08:17] regardless of what your position actually needs 各个权限的信息你都可以访问
[1:08:54] …Just before we go 在节目结束之前
[1:08:56] a reminder of our top story 让我们再次重温一下今天的头条新闻
[1:08:58] CIA took the co-worker Edward Snowden, says 中情局已经认定其雇员爱德华·斯诺登
[1:09:01] He’s responsible for leaking information 泄露了机密信息
[1:09:03] that US authority has been monitoring phone and Internet data 披露美国政府监控电话和网络数据
[1:09:08] The US justice department confirmed it’s in the third status 美国司法部证实
[1:09:12] on a criminal investigation 现在正在犯罪调查的第三阶段
[1:09:14] Leave it longer or cut it shorter 你觉得我
[1:09:15] what do you think 剃长点好还是短点好
[1:09:16] As far as the video, the people saw 跟电视采访的时候
[1:09:18] In my for now, was it 比起来
[1:09:21] ’cause I can’t go all the way down this 没办法都剃光
[1:09:23] It could still be stumble 可能还会有胡渣
[1:09:24] and I don’t have the blade for closer 我没有能剃得更干净的剃须刀
[1:09:29] Are you going to talk to other media about this story today 你今天会和媒体谈论这个事情吗
[1:09:32] I am 会的
[1:09:33] Will you be coming through… 你能够…
[1:09:36] 格伦·格林沃尔德 记者 卫报
[1:09:37] …about where is Snowden now? What his plans are 斯诺登在哪里 他有什么计划
[1:09:39] Well, obviously, I’m not gonna talk about that 我不想说这个
[1:09:41] So I must need your question’s just gonna be pretty, pretty… 你的问题…
[1:09:43] What are your plans? Please 你的计划是什么
[1:09:44] Are you staying in HK for the time being 你目前还呆在香港吗
[1:09:46] For a little while 会在这里停留一会儿
[1:09:47] Do you have any hopes to write more about this story 你对继续报道这个事件有希望吗
[1:09:50] or are you stopping new writing about this story 还是说你就不报道了
[1:09:53] No, I’m liking continue writing about it 我会继续下去的
[1:09:54] Have you had any pressure from the US authorities 对于继续报道这件事
[1:09:57] about continuing to report on this 美国政府有给你压力吗
[1:09:58] No 没有
[1:09:59] And have you heard anything about 你有没有听说
[1:10:01] what could be the ask of Hong Kong authorities 香港政府在此次事件中
[1:10:04] toward what’ s in the case 有什么要求
[1:10:05] Whether they contacted you or asked you anything about the whereabouts of Snowden 他们有没有联系你询问斯诺登的行踪
[1:10:09] Whether they have chosen another… 他们有没有选择另外的…
[1:10:11] I have not heard from the authorities of any of them 我没有收到任何来自政府的消息
[1:10:15] Do you, where do you think this story is going 你觉得对你 对斯诺登
[1:10:18] For you and of course for Snowden and of course 对美国媒体和美国政府来说
[1:10:21] for the US media and the US administration in general 事情会怎么发展下去
[1:10:23] Well, for me, I can tell, I’m gonna continue report on 我只能说说我个人方面
[1:10:26] do my reporting on what the government has been doing 我会继续报道政府在这件事情上所作的一切
[1:10:28] and what I think my readers should know about it 以及我认为我的读者应该知道的内幕
[1:10:31] As for him, I don’t think anyone knows 对于他 我相信没有人知道
[1:10:33] I could have people come after me 人们可能会追捕我
[1:10:34] Or any of their third party partners 或者任何他们的第三方伙伴
[1:10:37] You know, they’re close to a number of other nations 他们和很多个国家关系都很亲密
[1:10:40] Or you know they could pay off the triads 他们也可以买通帮会
[1:10:42] Any of their agents or assets 或者找到任何特工或者有利的条件
[1:10:45] We’ve got a CIA station just up the road 旁边路上就有一个中情局工作站
[1:10:48] The consulate here in HK 美国驻香港领事馆…
[1:10:58] Around the third of the country, 12 billion people are not going to work 三分之一的国家 120亿人口处在失业中…
[1:11:17] The top story 今天的头条新闻
[1:11:19] Facing a criminal investigation 揭发了国家安全局监听电话
[1:11:20] the whistleblower who leaked the details 和拦截网络信息的告密者
[1:11:22] On how NSA monitoring phone calls 今日现明正身
[1:11:25] and internet data growing public 面临刑事调查
[1:11:27] The security forces in Afghanistan 阿富汗安全部队称
[1:11:29] say a number of Taliban insurgents have targeted a Kabul’s airport 一批塔利班叛军袭击了喀布尔机场
[1:11:34] now it’s time for paper review 现在是评论报纸时间
[1:11:37] and look what’s making headline around the world 来看看今天又哪些世界头条新闻
[1:11:39] Let’s start with Guardian 我们先从卫报开始
[1:11:41] our top story which is revealing the identity 今天的头条是告密者现明正身
[1:11:43] of the former CIS employee 为前任中情局雇员
[1:11:45] The paper says the leaked information exposing the scale 报道称泄露的信息暴露了
[1:11:49] on American surveillance of the internet 美国对网络监视的规模
[1:11:52] Edward Snowden 爱德华·斯诺登
[1:11:53] What a great story 真是个好故事
[1:11:55] What do you say 你怎么看
[1:11:56] It’s a fantastic story 真是个不可思议的故事
[1:11:57] First of all, it could be straight out of John le Carre’s novel 完全就像约翰·勒卡雷的小说
[1:12:00] I mean when you read what he did 当你知道他做了什么
[1:12:02] yes he got the material 对 他是拿到了很多资料
[1:12:03] he then decided to go the place to indentify himself 然后他决定亮明身份
[1:12:06] God damn it 我靠
[1:12:08] …which is HK 因为他在香港
[1:12:09] because importing technically…inside China 中国是一国两制
[1:12:11] the one country, two system policies there 所以在那里
[1:12:14] meaning he would get the potentially some protection he thought 他可能会得到一些保护
[1:12:18] all very well planned 这些都计划得很好
[1:12:19] could be just our of the spy novels 简直就是间谍小说
[1:12:21] but what about the details 但是关于细节…
[1:12:26] I could make it worse but 我越弄越糟了 但是
[1:12:32] I’m not sure 我也不知道
[1:12:33] just the lower half of my face 只是我的脸的下半部分…
[1:13:09] Snowden says he’s becoming increasing dismayed 斯诺登称国家安全局权力的不断扩大
[1:13:11] by that he saw as the growing power of the NSA 让他心生恐惧
[1:13:14] and insists his decisions to passing on documents 非常坚定地要披露文件
[1:13:17] which said to reveal not only organizations 这些文件不仅暴露了多个组织
[1:13:20] monitor millions of phone calls 在监听电话记录
[1:13:22] but that have direct access 而且还透露
[1:13:25] How do you feel? 你感觉怎么样
[1:13:29] What happens happens 该发生的都发生了
[1:13:31] we’ve talked about this 我们也说过了
[1:13:32] I know the risk 我知道风险
[1:13:35] If I get arrested, I get arrested 如果我被捕了就被捕了
[1:13:39] We are able to get the information 我们还是要拿到这些信息
[1:13:41] the needed to get out out 需要公布的就公布
[1:13:45] and you and Glenn are able to keep reporting 不管在我身上发生什么事
[1:13:49] regardless what happens to me 你和格伦都要继续报道
[1:13:52] now, 29 year old Edward Snowden says the US intelligence agency 29岁的爱德华·斯诺登称美国情报局
[1:13:56] got millions of phone records 搜集了上百万的电话记录
[1:13:58] and monitored internet data 并一直监控网络数据
[1:14:01] the Guardian paper revealed his identity 卫报根据他的要求
[1:14:11] I’m afraid you have the wrong room, thank you 对不起 你打错电话了
[1:14:15] Wall street Journal 华尔街日报
[1:14:28] Yes, I’m sorry, say again 请再重复一遍
[1:14:36] No, no thank you 哦 不用了
[1:14:37] No calls 没人会给我打电话
[1:14:38] I think they have the wrong number 他们找错人了
[1:14:41] Yeah, no calls, thank you 对 没人会给我打电话
[1:14:43] Wait, I’m sorry, if it’s, it’s two men from the front desk 如果是在前台的两个男人
[1:14:48] They can call 他们可以打电话给我
[1:14:49] But no else calls 其他电话就不用接了
[1:14:50] Wait, actually just let them through 你就直接让他们上来
[1:14:54] Wait, wait Ma’am, fuck 等等 小姐 我靠
[1:15:01] Yes, wait, is it a lawyer? 等等 是一名律师吗
[1:15:12] No, no, no, I mean the people who are asking 不是 我是问那个问你的人
[1:15:15] Ask them if they are lawyers 问问他们是不是律师
[1:15:23] No, tell her that she has the wrong number 告诉她打错电话了
[1:15:26] and there’s no Mr Snowden here 这里没有斯诺登
[1:15:37] Hi Robert, can you talk right now? 嗨 罗伯特 现在方便说话吗
[1:15:39] I safely got into room. 我安全到达房间了
[1:15:42] -I’m now salfly with the client.OK? -It’s OK. -我现在跟客户很安全 可以了吗 -好的
[1:15:46] So, can we talk toghter about plan? 我们能谈谈计划吗
[1:15:49] Did this application start already or what? Technically? 避难申请开始了吗 还是
[1:15:55] Yes, but? so technically it hasn’tstarted yet. 但是 所以是还没有开始
[1:16:09] Would you mind to talk in speakerphone? 可不可以放扩音器
[1:16:13] Sorry. 不好意思
[1:16:14] -Hey Robert? -Yeah, hi. -你在吗 -在 你好
[1:16:17] Hi, I’m the client 你好 我就是客户
[1:16:18] Hi, hi, hi, Edward, how are you holding up? 爱德华 你还好吗
[1:16:21] I’m pretty good, I’m doing very well 我很好 非常好
[1:16:24] Ok, I just met with the head of the UNHCR here in hong kong, 我刚跟香港的联合国难民事务办事处的负责人见过面
[1:16:29] and they’re aware that you are raising 他们知道你在寻求保护
[1:16:34] the protection you are entitled to under the UNHCR and 你有权利享有联合国难民署的保护
[1:16:37] -They wouls like you to come wih us to the UN. -OK -他们想让你到我们联合国这边来 -好的
[1:16:41] If you come now, it’slunchtime, 如果你现在来 还是午饭时间
[1:16:43] but they’re gonna let ue in. 但是他们会让我们进去
[1:16:45] No one else can get in. 其他人不行
[1:16:46] OK 好
[1:16:47] At the UNHCR there are separate exits from the buiding 联合国难民署大楼有个独立出口
[1:16:50] so we have a good opportunity, 你可以从那里出去
[1:16:52] -If any of the media finds out you’re there, -Yeah -如果媒体发现你在这里的话 -好的
[1:16:55] You be able to exit a cifferent way from the building. 你可以从另一条通道离开大楼
[1:16:58] OK. That’s great. 嗯 不错
[1:16:59] Is it OK if I bring equipment 我可以带点设备吗
[1:17:01] ‘Cause I am just kind of going, 这样我走的时候
[1:17:02] so I can leave in any direction at any time 可以随时从任意方向离开
[1:17:04] and not come back, if necessary 如果可以的话就不回来了
[1:17:06] Just walk out of there, you don’t have to go back, 你只需离开那里就好 不用再回来
[1:17:09] OK 好的
[1:17:10] Take whatever you want you, and just go with Mr. Man. 带上你想带的东西 直接和曼先生走
[1:17:12] I will pick you … 我会来接你
[1:17:14] He knows ehere I’m gonna pick you guys up. 他知道我会在哪里接你们
[1:17:15] And then I’ll bring you to the UNHCR 然后我会把你们带到联合国难民署
[1:17:17] OK, that sounds good 嗯 是个好主意
[1:17:18] Allright 好的
[1:17:19] Thank you, thank you so much for helping…. 谢谢你 谢谢你的帮助
[1:17:21] He’s quite worried about the next step, 他很担心 下一步怎么走
[1:17:24] about accmmodation, where he is going to stay. 担心住所 担心他之后要呆在哪里
[1:17:26] where there is something private and that he would not be discovered by the police. 担心呆的地方是不是够隐秘 会不会被警察发现
[1:17:31] Don’t… Don’t… 别…别…
[1:17:32] I wouldn’t worry about that now, let’s just get to the UN. 现在先不要担心那些 先去联合国
[1:17:34] ok.I see. 好的 我明白
[1:17:35] I will give you call before we start, ok? 我们出发前给你打个电话 可以吗
[1:17:39] OK, thank you 好的 谢谢你
[1:17:39] OK, thank you 好的 谢谢你
[1:17:40] Bey-bey. 再见
[1:17:41] Be 再见
[1:17:42] So… Now this, 然后 现在
[1:17:44] look at, we don’t have a car. 你看 我们没有车之类的
[1:17:47] What I’m thinking… 我在想
[1:17:49] We may 我们可以
[1:17:52] ask the concierge to arrange a car. 让前台给我们安排一辆车
[1:17:54] Or we just go down and cath a taxi? 或者我们直接下楼打车
[1:17:57] But it’s quite… 但是…
[1:17:58] The traffic here in Sha Tsui is quite diffcult t get a taxi. 尖沙咀这边的交通 打车是比较困难的
[1:18:02] Yeah, so you… 这样 那么你…
[1:18:04] So is there president for this where Hong Kong 香港有没有领导人会因为
[1:18:07] would extradite someone for political speech? 政治言论而引渡某人
[1:18:10] No, I’m not aware of 我不太清楚
[1:18:12] But if we have a torture claim 如果说我们这里有刑罚申请
[1:18:14] or asylum seeking claim, 或是避难申请的话
[1:18:16] then ther ought, under the law, 根据法律 他们应该
[1:18:18] they ought to give you recognizance 他们应该会为你提供担保
[1:18:21] for you to stay in Hong Kong 让你待在香港
[1:18:22] because they don’t know where to dump you back yet. 因为他们不知道把你送回哪里
[1:19:17] The president certainly does not welcome the way 上周 这场讨论已经引起很大关注
[1:19:19] that this debate has earned a great attention in last week 总统显然表示不满
[1:19:22] then the leaked class-five information 有关在反恐中至关重要的敏感项目
[1:19:23] About sensitive programs that are important 其五级保密级别信息泄露俨然成了一个大问题
[1:19:26] in our fighting against terrorists who 众所周知恐怖分子势必
[1:19:27] will do harm to Americans is a problem 会对美国人民造成很大的危害
[1:19:30] but the debate itself is ligitimate and should be engaged 但是讨论本身是合理的 也是值得参与的
[1:19:43] 国家计划保护程序 哨兵鹰
[1:19:45] 各位已经知晓哨兵鹰 旨在保护国家安全局 美国战略联合司令部等相关的最高机密 即美国政府为保护…
[1:19:52] 美国企业 美国学术界 指定外国政府
[1:19:52] 指定的开放信息 仅对美国政府及部分外国 政府开放信息[例如 五眼联盟] 对部分特殊指定的 美国政府官员开放的信息
[1:19:52] 最高机密 机密 秘密 仅供官方使用
[1:20:35] ES 我的手稿已经被华盛顿邮报发表了 国家安全局应该已经入侵了我的账户 阻断了连接
[1:23:25] All right.. So which ones do we want to here then? 哪个是我们想要的
[1:23:28] This is operational stuff 这些都是有关如何操作的
[1:23:29] so we mustn’t say any of this 这些我们不能说
[1:23:31] So, redact that. 那就编辑一下
[1:23:32] Go near the top 到最上面
[1:23:34] What about the Alexander quote? Is that something… 亚力山大讲的那句话怎么样 是不是…
[1:23:36] Yeah, that’s in TARMAC. 这个是《TARMAC》项目
[1:23:37] Why can’t we collect all the signals all the time? 为什么我们不能一直搜集所有信号
[1:23:40] Sounds like a good summer homework project for Menwith.” 这就话听起来像是曼维斯的暑假作业
[1:23:43] Keith Alexander, the head of the NSA, on a visit to U.K. This one. 国家安全局局长基思·亚力山大访问英国 就这个
[1:23:47] Yeah, that’s it 对 就是这个
[1:23:48] Secret documents. Is it? 秘密文件 是这个吗
[1:23:49] Secret documents? 秘密文件
[1:23:51] We’re gonna stick here 我们要在这里呆很久
[1:23:52] That should just have three single slides on there 这个只有三张独立幻灯片
[1:23:55] It’s got more than three single slides on 更多的幻灯片在…
[1:23:58] We have to be extremely careful 我们一定要非常小心
[1:23:59] 英国政府通讯总部 控制互联网 最初的多样性项目
[1:24:02] Yeah? 这个
[1:24:03] Yeah, that’s it 对 就是这个
[1:24:04] This is really dangerous stuff for us, Guardian 对我们卫报来说这太危险了
[1:24:08] If we make mistakes, very angry 如果我们出出错 会非常生气
[1:24:09] We kept it all under lock and key 我们一定要妥善保管
[1:24:11] And no one knows. No, I’m not saying that. 没人知道 我不是说…
[1:24:14] They will come in and snap the front door down 如果我们进行详细报道
[1:24:16] if we elaborate on that. 他们肯定会把我们大门都拆了
[1:24:19] And he said, “The prime minister is desperately concerned about this.” 他说首相非常关注此事
[1:24:22] And they kept saying, “This is from the very top.” 他们反复强调这是最上头的命令
[1:25:36] As you can see on this now, the flight bag 根据这个行李箱
[1:25:37] it accordingly has Snowden aboard 斯诺登在这架飞机上
[1:25:39] Almost reach its destination here in Moscow 这架飞机就快到达目的地莫斯科首都
[1:25:41] scheduled to land in the Russia capital within a minute 一分钟内即将降落
[1:25:44] As you may have heard, there is a CIA agent 你可能听说了 一名中央情报局特工
[1:25:50] who has revealed a lot of information 揭露了大量信息
[1:25:52] And he’s now trapped in the, the airport in Moscow 现在他被困在莫斯科机场内
[1:25:58] We’ve managed to get him out of Hong Kong, 我们已经成功把他带离香港
[1:25:59] he landed in the Moscow airport. 想在莫斯科机场降落
[1:26:02] The America government has canceled his passport 美国政府吊销了他的护照
[1:26:06] so formally, he has entered into Russian territory 严格来说 他已经进入俄罗斯领土
[1:26:09] He is in a transit area of the airport 他现在在机场的中转区
[1:26:13] And people is accompanying him 的人跟他在一起
[1:26:15] We are trying to arrange a private jet to take him from Moscow 我们计划安排一架私人飞机带他离开莫斯科
[1:26:25] To Ecuador or, or perhaps maybe then Venezuela 到厄尔瓜多或者委内瑞拉
[1:26:31] or maybe Iceland, countries in where he will be safe 或者冰岛 去那些能确保他人身安全的国家
[1:30:04] May I collect all the phones, please? 请上交所有通讯设备
[1:30:11] ok 好的
[1:30:19] Put them in the refrigerator 把它们放进冰箱
[1:30:32] So, as you know, in June 所以 你们都知道 六月份的时候
[1:30:35] Snowden was in charge with three legal violations felonies 斯诺登被控告三项重罪罪名
[1:30:42] principally under an world war one era. 主要从一战开始
[1:30:45] criminal law called the Espionage Act 有一个刑法叫做反间谍法
[1:30:47] the Espionage Act is an extremely broad criminal prohibition 反间谍法是一项范围相当广的犯罪禁令
[1:30:52] against the sharing or dissemination of 旨在反对散布宣传
[1:30:56] what’s called national defense information 所谓的国防信息
[1:30:58] It was only used to prosecute people 它是用来起诉那些和国外势力
[1:31:02] who had been accused of acting 间谍有关系的人
[1:31:04] with foreign power, spies, not whistleblowers 但不用来起诉告密者
[1:31:07] And it’s a very unusual legally representation, 我觉得不只是对你们所有人来说
[1:31:09] I think, not just for all of you 就单单对我而言
[1:31:11] but for, for me as well 这是一个非常特殊的辩护
[1:31:13] The Espionage Act is not to distinguish between 因公众利益而向媒体泄密和
[1:31:17] leaks to the press and public interests 为私人利益向国外势力出卖秘密
[1:31:19] and selling secrets to foreign enemies for personal profit 在这两者上反间谍法并没有进行区分
[1:31:23] so, under the Espionage Act, it’s not a defense 所以根据反间谍法
[1:31:27] if the information that was disclosed should not 泄露的信息本身不应该隐瞒或保密级别不当
[1:31:29] have been withheld in the first place and it was improperly classified 不能成为一个辩护理由
[1:31:33] It’s not a defense if the dissemination was 泄露的信息是为了公众利益 以及寻求改革
[1:31:36] in the public interests that … reforms 也不能成为辩护理由
[1:31:38] Even if a court determines that the program 即使法庭判决遭到信息泄露的项目是
[1:31:41] that will reveal were illegal or unconstitutional 非法的或者违宪的
[1:31:44] that’s still not a defense 它仍然不能成为一个辩护理由
[1:31:45] Under the Espionage Act, the government 根据反间谍法
[1:31:47] doesn’t have to defend the classification 政府是不需要对信息的保密级别分类作出解释的
[1:31:50] It doesn’t have to demonstrate harm from the release 也不需要证明泄露的信息所具有的危害
[1:31:53] All this is irrelevant 所有这一切都是无关的
[1:31:55] So when we say that the trial wouldn’t be fair 所以说这个审判一定是不公平的
[1:31:58] we are not talking about what human rights lawyers 我们现在所谈论的公平审判
[1:32:01] think of is fair trial practices 不是人权律师概念中的那种公平审判
[1:32:03] We are saying the law, the statue itself that eliminates 我们所谈的法律法规
[1:32:07] any kind of defense that Snowden might be able to make, 它本身就排除了所有斯诺登可能可以使用的辩护理由
[1:32:11] and essentially would equate him with the spy 最终可能把他等同于一个间谍
[1:32:13] and of course, those three counts could be increased to 当然 这三项罪名可能会被扩大到
[1:32:17] a hundred or two hundred or three hundred, 一百项 两百项 或者三百项
[1:32:19] they can charge him separately for each document 他们可以用记者公布的多份文件
[1:32:21] that has been published by a journalist 一份份分别起诉他
[1:32:24] And I think that, that we all recognize 我觉得 我们都意识到
[1:32:26] even though we sit here as lawyers in a lawyers’meeting, 即使我们以律师的身份坐在这里 开律师会议
[1:32:29] that, that is probably 95% politics and 5% law, 我们都知道最终的结果可能
[1:32:35] how this will be result 政治因素占95% 法律因素只占5%
[1:32:44] ES 联邦调查局已经拿到授权 将会和中央情报局 还有其他匿名国家 包括英国 一起合作调查我的计划以及全世界我的联系人的位置
[1:33:09] Mr. Snowden has been charged of fair serious crimes 斯诺登先生因严重罪行而被控告
[1:33:11] and he should be returned to the United States 他必须回到美国根据宪法下的司法制度
[1:33:14] where he will be granted full due process and 进行法定诉讼程序
[1:33:17] every right available to him as a United States citizen 我们将予以其所有美国公民的权力
[1:33:20] facing our justice system under the constitution 在宪法的监督下 进入司法程序
[1:34:15] I don’t think Mr. Snowden was a patriot. 我认为斯诺登先生不能算作一位爱国者
[1:34:17] I called for a thorough review of our surveillance operations 在他泄密之前
[1:34:23] before Mr. Snowden made these leaks 我曾经要求对我们的监测行动进行彻底的审查
[1:34:26] My preference, and I think, the American people’s preference 我希望 我觉得全国民众也希望
[1:34:31] would have been for a lawful, orderly examination of these laws 对相关法律进行合法有序的审查
[1:34:37] A thoughtful fact-to-base debate, that would then lead us to a better place 一场深思熟虑 忠于事实的讨论会帮助我们进步
[1:35:02] 在他与我在柏林见面后的回程中 格伦·格林沃尔德的搭档大卫·米兰达 因为英国的反恐法案在伦敦希思罗机场被拘留九个小时
[1:35:24] Oh, my god. 天呐
[1:35:26] David. 大卫
[1:35:29] Hello, my baby 宝贝
[1:35:31] Are you ok? 你还好吗
[1:35:39] I just wanna go 我想离开
[1:35:39] Ok, ok, ok. 好好好
[1:35:41] You just have to walk here 走这边
[1:35:50] How are you? 还好吗
[1:35:51] good, good, I am totally fine. I didn’t… but I couldn’t sleep 我很好…但是我睡不着觉
[1:35:54] I know. 我知道
[1:36:17] Recent report has revealed that the NSA has access 近期报道披露了国家安全局
[1:36:20] to encryption keys and they paid tech companies 能够使用加密密钥 并买通技术公司
[1:36:23] to introduce back doors in encryption protocols 钻加密协议的空子
[1:36:25] So we are going to talk about ways in which 我们要谈论的是
[1:36:28] we can defend ourselves against governments’spying on us 如何反对政府监视 保护个人隐私
[1:36:32] So Mr. Jacob Applebaum was encryptioinist of Security Software developer, 雅各布·阿佩尔鲍姆先生是安全软件开发者
[1:36:37] and journalist Ladar Levison the founder of 记者雷达·利维森是电子邮件加密服务Lavabit的创始人
[1:36:40] the encrypted emailed service Lavabit used by Edward Snowden 爱德华·斯诺登所使用的就是Lavabit
[1:36:45] You have the floor 时间交给你
[1:36:46] Thank you 谢谢
[1:36:47] Lavabit is a email service that hopefully one day Lavabit是一项电子邮件服务 我希望有一天大家
[1:36:50] will be able to stand on its own without any references to Snowden 提起它的时候是因为该电子邮件服务本身 而非斯诺登
[1:36:56] My service was designed to remove me from the possibility 我的这项服务 旨在消除我
[1:37:00] of being forced to violate a person’s privacy 被迫侵犯他人隐私的可能性
[1:37:04] Quite simply, 很简单
[1:37:05] Lavabit was designed to remove the service provider Lavabit 这项服务就是通过在服务器上
[1:37:08] from the equation by not having logs on my server 不储存日志记录 不提供读取他人邮件和磁盘的方法
[1:37:12] and not having access to a person’s emails on disk 从而在该过程中抹去服务提供商
[1:37:15] I was eliminating the possibility of surveillance 我之前所做的就是为了减少监视的可能性
[1:37:18] I was simply removing myself from that equation in that 因为监视必须要有一个目标对象
[1:37:23] surveillance would have to be conducted on the target, 不是信息的发送者就是信息的接收者
[1:37:26] either tsender or the receiver of the messages 我只是将自己从这个发送到接受的过程中抹去了
[1:37:30] But I was approached by the FBI quite recently 但是最近联邦调查局找到我
[1:37:34] and told that because I could turn off the information 说我因为可以关闭特定用户信息
[1:37:38] from that one particular user 必须放弃SSL密钥
[1:37:40] I would be forced to give up those SSL keys 在完全不透明公开的情况下
[1:37:42] to let FBI collect every communication on my network 让联邦调查局从我的网络中
[1:37:45] without any kind of transparency 搜集所有通讯信息
[1:37:48] And of course, I wasn’t comfortable with that 当然 我当然很生气
[1:37:52] to say the least more disturbing was the fact 毫不夸张地说
[1:37:56] that I could tell anybody that it was going on 我那时觉得不能跟别人说这件事更让人心烦
[1:37:59] So I decided, if I didn’t win the fight to unseal my case 所以我决定 如果我不能说出真相
[1:38:04] if I didn’t win the battle to be able to tell people what was going on 如果我不能告诉世人正在发生的一切
[1:38:09] then my only ethical choose left was to shut it down 那么我唯一忠于道德的选择就是关闭它
[1:38:14] Think about that 想一想
[1:38:17] I believe in the rule of law 我相信法治
[1:38:19] I believe the need to conduct investigations 我相信对于这件事是有调查的必要的
[1:38:23] But those investigations are supposed to be difficult for a reason, 但是这些调查不应该这么简单就能开展
[1:38:26] it’s supposed to difficult to invade somebody’s privacy 他人的隐私不应该这么容易就受到侵犯
[1:38:30] Because of how intrusive it is 因为这种行为
[1:38:33] because of how disruptive it is, 具有很大的入侵性和破坏性
[1:38:36] If we can, if we don’t have our right to privacy 如果 如果我们失去隐私
[1:38:39] how do we have a free and open discussion? 我们要如何进行自由公开的讨论
[1:38:42] What good is the right to free speech if it’s not protected 如果言论自由不受保护
[1:38:49] in the sense 也就是说
[1:38:50] that you can’t have a private discussion 对有异议的事 你不能和别人进行私底下讨论
[1:38:52] with somebody else about something you disagree with 那么这种言论自由又有什么好呢
[1:38:55] Think about the chilling effect that has, 想想由此造成的令人心生恐惧的影响
[1:38:58] Think about the chilling effect it does have on countries 想想这对一个没有隐私的国家
[1:39:01] that don’t have a right to privacy 所造成的可怕影响
[1:39:03] I notice a really interesting discussion point 我发现一个很有趣的现象
[1:39:05] which is that what people used call liberty and freedom 民众从前称之为自由的东西
[1:39:08] we now call it privacy 现在被叫做隐私
[1:39:11] And we say, in the same breath the privacy is dead 同时 我们说隐私已死
[1:39:15] This is something that really concerns me 对于我们这一代人 特别是当我们说
[1:39:17] about my generation, especially when we talk about 没有什么事能让我们感到惊讶的了
[1:39:19] how we are not surprised by anything. 我真的感到非常的担忧
[1:39:21] I think that we should consider that when we lose privacy, 我觉得我们应该想想 当我们失去隐私
[1:39:24] we lose agency, we lose liberty itself 我们失去媒介 我们失去自由本身
[1:39:27] because we no longer feel free to express what we think 因为我们不能再自由地表达自己的看法
[1:39:30] There is this myth of the past surveillance machine 从前有一个关于监视仪的神话故事
[1:39:32] But actually what is surveillance 但什么是监视呢
[1:39:34] Is that control 是控制吗
[1:39:35] This notion that the NSA are passive 国家安全局的这种做法是被动的
[1:39:37] This is nonsense 这种说法完全是胡说八道
[1:39:38] What we see was that they actively 我们看到的是
[1:39:39] attack European citizens, American citizens 他们侵犯了欧洲人 美国人
[1:39:42] and in fact anyone that they can if they perceive an advantage 如果他们看到任何好处的话 他们会选择去侵犯所有人
[1:41:22] OK. 好的
[1:41:26] What will you tell the Germany people? 你想对德国人民说点什么
[1:41:29] I have to get that in the testimony 你想对德国人民说点什么
[1:41:32] What else do you need to tell? 我要留着给我的证词
[1:41:34] Everything I can truthfully 没有别的要说的吗
[1:41:38] what will you be talking about? 我会一五一十的把我知道的说出来
[1:41:40] Whatever the question they ask me 不管他们问我什么
[1:41:43] Yeah, I think it’s over there 我想就到此为止吧
[1:41:44] Ok, alright 好的
[1:41:46] Thank you 谢谢
[1:41:51] Hello, Mr. Binney 你好 宾尼先生
[1:41:53] Hi. 你好
[1:41:54] How are you? 怎么样
[1:41:54] Good. 挺好的
[1:41:55] How are you? 你怎么样
[1:41:56] Good 很好
[1:41:56] See you again 又见面了
[1:41:57] Nice to meet you 很高兴见到你
[1:41:57] Yes. 是啊
[1:42:08] It is my pleasure to be here.I feel that it’s important to testify 很荣幸能够来到这里 我觉得能出来作证很重要
[1:42:12] about what’s really going on behind teh scenes in the intelligence communities around the world 揭露全球情报界幕后发生的一切
[1:42:17] Not just in NSA. 不仅仅只是国家安全局
[1:42:19] All those programs that Edward Sonwden has exposed 所有爱德华·斯诺登所披露的项目
[1:42:22] foundamentally are ways of acquiring information. 基本上都是有关信息搜集渠道的
[1:42:26] Every dictatorship doen through history has always done that. 历史上每一个独裁国家都做过这样的事
[1:42:29] One of the first things they need to do is try to acquire knowledge of their population. 他们首要任务就是获得民众信息
[1:42:34] And that’s exactly what those programs do. 这些项目的目的也是为了获得民众信息
[1:42:37] I see this as the most major threat to our democracies all around the world. 我认为 对于全世界来说 这是对民主的最大威胁
[1:42:41] 德国针对国家安全局窃听丑闻调查委员会中有为美国中情局效力的双面间谍 这一消息打断了宾尼的证词
[1:43:30] What do you think they are doing to reporters those of us 你觉得他们会对怎么对付我们这些
[1:43:32] who are working directly with Snowden documents 和斯诺登件有直接接触的记者
[1:43:36] How do you think they would approach dealing with people like us 你觉得他们会怎么对付像我们这样的人
[1:43:38] You are, you are on the of cover list 你们都在监视名单上
[1:43:42] which means that any, any electronic device you use 也就是说 利用你使用的任何电子设备
[1:43:46] that they can attach to you 他们都可以找到你
[1:43:47] they all record and capture all that data 他们会记录获取所有数据
[1:43:49] and what did they do with that data? 他们会如何处理那些数据
[1:43:51] They just try to figure out what we were doing? 只是找出我们正在做什么
[1:43:52] Well, that’s part of it. 嗯 那是其中一部分
[1:43:55] But the other part, the primary part is for them. 另一部分 我觉得主要目的是
[1:43:57] I think is to find the sources of information you are getting 找出你的消息来源
[1:44:00] So if I have a confidential source 那么如果我有一个秘密的消息来源
[1:44:01] who’s giving me the information as a whistleblower 他是以告密人的身份给我信息的
[1:44:04] and he works for the US government 他在美国政府工作
[1:44:06] And he is concerned about what he perceives 他对他认为是违宪的
[1:44:08] as violations of the constitution, 政府行为感到担忧
[1:44:11] And he gets in touch with me 于是就联系到我
[1:44:12] They 他们
[1:44:13] Yeah 嗯
[1:44:14] go ahead 请继续
[1:44:15] Yeah, from then on, they would nail him and start watching everything 对 他们会盯上他 关注他的一举一动
[1:44:18] he did and if he starts passing data 然后开始获取数据
[1:44:20] I’m sure that they take him off on the street. 我觉得他们会把他从直接从街上就带走
[1:44:22] I mean the way they have to do it is like Deep-Throat did, right 我的意思是 他们所做的
[1:44:26] in the Nixon years 和尼克松时期的深喉一样
[1:44:28] Meet in a basement of a parking garage physically 在暗处行动
[1:45:12] let’s disassociate your metadata one last time, 这是我们最后一次切断数据联系了
[1:45:15] So we don’t have a clue or record of your true name 这样我们在你的文件通信链里
[1:45:17] In your file communication chain 就没有你真实姓名的记录
[1:45:19] This is obviously not to say you can’t claim your involvement 当然这不是说你不能证明自己与这件事与有关
[1:45:22] But as every trick in the book is likely to be used in looking into this. 所有能用来调查这件事的方法都已经用过了
[1:45:26] I believe it’s better that particular disclosures come on your own terms 我觉得公布什么信息最好还是由你自己决定
[1:45:32] Thank you again for all you’ve done 感谢你所做的一切
[1:45:34] So sorry again for the multiple delays 很抱歉我之前多次延期
[1:45:36] But we’ve been on an untrod territory 因为我们现在所处的地方人迹罕至
[1:45:38] with no mode to benefit from 根本没有调制解调器
[1:45:41] If all ends well 如果一切都结束得顺利的话
[1:45:42] perhaps the demonstration that our methods work 因为我们而引起的示威游行
[1:45:45] will embolden more to come forward. 可能会更大胆的走上街头
[1:45:48] Citizen 公民
[1:45:54] So the update that I wanna give you is about… 我要告诉你的最新情况
[1:45:57] the new source that we… 是新的消息来源…
[1:46:03] OK. 嗯
[1:46:05] That this is what … 就是…
[1:46:11] This is the, you know, this is the person who’s doing the most… 你知道 就是这个人…
[1:46:13] Right, right, right 嗯
[1:46:15] the work on it 这个人就是泄密的人
[1:46:18] And now, and now basically what happens is… 现在的情况就是…
[1:46:25] And… 还有…
[1:46:26] That’s actually…that’s really dangerous on the sources’side 实际上 对于消息来源那一方 这很危险
[1:46:32] Do they know how to take care of themselves? 他们知道怎么样保护自己吗
[1:46:34] He knows, he knows 知道 知道
[1:46:35] he means it’s all being done through this 他的意思是所有都是这样完成的…
[1:46:42] OK. 嗯
[1:46:43] And they are all talking…this way? 他们在谈论 是这样的…
[1:46:47] OK. 嗯
[1:46:47] And… 还有…
[1:46:49] I was gonna say that one of the big questions 我想说一个很严重的问题
[1:46:50] there is can they handle it, you know? 他们可以处理好吗
[1:46:52] Yeah, they are very careful. 他们会的 他们很小心
[1:46:55] Even they’re through that 即使他们都经历了…
[1:46:56] Yeah. 嗯
[1:47:02] And.. 还有…
[1:47:10] That’s what that is. 这就是那个…
[1:47:14] Wow, that’s really something. 哇 这真的太那个了…
[1:47:28] You know that? 你知道
[1:47:36] It’s not the actual planes 其实不在飞机问题上…
[1:47:39] Right, right, 对 对
[1:47:40] you mean the control. 你是说是是控制权的问题…
[1:47:41] It’s the process who’s sending the.. 就是谁发送命令…
[1:47:43] Yeah. 是的
[1:47:44] There is a chart, you know, 其实还有一个流程图
[1:47:46] There’s a whole way out in it for everyone 对所有人都有一个筛选过程
[1:47:49] is really bold, is really risky 这很冒险 风险很大
[1:47:51] But, you know, that’s the thing 但是
[1:47:53] if they understand what they are doing 重要的是他们知道自己在做什么
[1:47:55] They are more… 他们更…
[1:47:55] There is this chart because of this 关于这个流程图是有原因的
[1:47:57] It shows that decision-making chart 就是这样一个决策流程图
[1:47:59] It’s a chart…it’s, it’s shaped like this 就是这个样子
[1:48:08] So says.. 所以 说
[1:48:10] That’s the decision making chart for each one 这就是用来筛查每个人的流程图
[1:48:16] That’s 这
[1:48:19] It’s so political 这太政治化了
[1:48:21] This is, this part’s amazing 这是 这部分太惊人
[1:48:29] That’s fucking ridiculous 真他妈的荒谬
[1:48:32] This is so shocking 这实在太震惊了
[1:48:40] 在监视名单上各个不同监视等级 加起来一共有120万人
[1:48:41] I know 我知道
[1:48:47] That’s what we were working on. 这个就是我们收到的消息
[1:49:04] That person is incredible bold 那个人太大胆了
[1:49:05] But.. 但是…
[1:49:07] But also very well there.. 但是做的非常好
[1:49:09] Right. 对
[1:49:09] You know, I just hope, I mean.. 你知道 我只是希望 我是说…
[1:49:12] Now I mean the baldness is shocking 这么大胆确实是有点让人震惊
[1:49:14] But it meant it was obviously motivated by what you did, I mean 我是说 这很明显都是受你启发
[1:49:17] This is going to, this is going to, that could raise the profile of 这样的话会把整件有关告密者政治事件的关注度
[1:49:24] this whole political situation with whistle blowing to a whole new level but…. 上升到一个新高度 但是…
[1:49:28] Exactly. 确实
[1:49:29] It’s gonna… 这会…
[1:49:30] Yeah, I mean, I actually think that’s a great thing. 嗯 我真的觉得这是件非常好的事
[1:49:33] And I think people are going to see 我觉得人们将看到
[1:49:35] what’s being hiding, again, again 那些被政府的黑暗势力
[1:49:37] by a totally different part of the government. 一次又一次隐藏起来的真相
2014年

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